4Edition. Do you like it?

[alhoon]

And still, half the voters don't like 4E and from the half that does like it, about half prefers 3rd edition...

I see a trend here: From a bunch of players that value campaign style and theme (since we're all Ravenloft players) and have quite higher age average, half like 4E, half don't.
So I guess younger players or types more "It's a game for me and me buddies to relax a few hours before we see a match on TV" than us, 4E is mostly good.

[HuManBing]

Yes, but 3rd/3.5 (or 2nd, or OD&D) was better

Those editions still exist.

Heresy! Hearsay! Hereford! Heracles!



(Edit: "Heracles" fits better than "Hebrides", no offense to our Scottish posters.)

[Isabella]

I see a trend here: From a bunch of players that value campaign style and theme (since we're all Ravenloft players) and have quite higher age average, half like 4E, half don't.
So I guess younger players or types more "It's a game for me and me buddies to relax a few hours before we see a match on TV" than us, 4E is mostly good.

*puts monocle in eye* Ah, 4e, the "commoners" game, very pleasant for an evening's entertainment, I suppose, but *sniff* you can hardly take it seriously, eh old chum? Still, keeps the riff-raff happy. Would you care for some more caviar?

(Joking! Joking!)

[Nathan of the FoS]

H'm...

There's no option for my own view, which is essentially "4e is fine. 3e, also fine."

I think 3e is a more powerful system, in that it has fewer built-in limits. This does not necessarily make it any better, or more fun, but I think it explains a lot of the reaction to 4e from those who know D&D as a third edition phenomenon.

FWIW, my dad liked 4e after our playtest quite a bit better than 3e, although he prefers 1e to either. I think the idea of "3e as outlier" has quite a bit of merit.

[NeoTiamat]

*quirks brow* Yes, 4E, the game of the hoi polloi.

I tend to think of it more this way. I want roleplay heavy games. So let me spend time on making characters and figuring out plot, and not wrestling with how to make an effective illusionist enemy at CR 7.

[Kaitou Kage]

And still, half the voters don't like 4E and from the half that does like it, about half prefers 3rd edition...

I see a trend here: From a bunch of players that value campaign style and theme (since we're all Ravenloft players) and have quite higher age average, half like 4E, half don't.
So I guess younger players or types more "It's a game for me and me buddies to relax a few hours before we see a match on TV" than us, 4E is mostly good.

See, this is where I generally believe the people that find 4E too "kiddy" or what have you are being rather shortsighted. 4E works about as well as 3E for a purely roleplaying/campaign style game. I don't mean to say everyone has to like it. If you (generic you here) just don't like it because you don't like it, that's fine. But I think a lot of people just plain don't want to see past the "oh it's too combat-focused for me" aspects of it. I've been running a very successful heavy-RP 4E game via message board and I have yet to run across any serious issues with theme, campaign style, or roleplaying mechanics in general. At least, nothing any worse than I'd encounter in 3E.

[DasSoviet]

I've been running a very successful heavy-RP 4E game via message board and I have yet to run across any serious issues with theme, campaign style, or roleplaying mechanics in general. At least, nothing any worse than I'd encounter in 3E.

Forum, my friend, forum... typically, from my own experience of 6 years of play-by-post, forums tend to attract the roleplayers more so then the powergamers Indeed, I'm likely going to end up starting a 4e-forum based game at my forum, as several of the players there have asked for a D&D campaign, and one of them only wants to play 4e, so it seems that's the way we'll be going. However, I have little doubt that running a 4e game on the forums will work far better than on the table top, because of how it plays compared to 3.5. However, the opposite is also true in that I feel that 3.5 is the better tabletop game, and lends itself better to the face-to-face real time interactions of the game table.

Of course, I must finish this off by saying that I will be buying all 4e videogames that come out, as I think that 4e will not only translate well to the videogame genre, but can be used to create absolutely fantastic games in the virtual medium. As much as I loved Baulder's Gate, Planescape, Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights, they really did have to bend the rules to make it work, and even then it wasn't as good as tabletop. I think 4e may be the first edition able to translate seamlessly online without loosing anything that cannot be compensated for. So, I think as it's going, I'll keep my 4e games on the screen, while 3.5 and Pathfinder will continue to be played with paper, dice, and old Magic tokens on a dry erase board

[Igor the Henchman]

However, I have little doubt that running a 4e game on the forums will work far better than on the table top, because of how it plays compared to 3.5. However, the opposite is also true in that I feel that 3.5 is the better tabletop game, and lends itself better to the face-to-face real time interactions of the game table.

This is untrue, at least in my experience of running and playing face-to-face games in both systems.

I do not argue your point about play-by-post gaming being innately attractive to the acting/storytelling crowd, though. From what I've spied or experienced of it, I'd say forum roleplaying is different in that it allows large amounts of time to come up with a response to game events. A face-to-face experience is more immediate and visceral, assuming the game master knows to detect and avoid breaks in tension. If anything, 4E rewards face-to-face experience slightly better because the DM has less mechanical data to process and more room for descriptions and improvisation.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried converting some of the NPCs to 4th ed?

[Jester of the FoS]

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried converting some of the NPCs to 4th ed?

I had an Azalin done-up earlier, it might still be on my box page (lemme look).
http://www.box.net/shared/yoie7iegok

It's old though and I'd probably revise the heck out of it now.

One of the things the Fraternity has considered doing is dumping the "Domain of the Month" and replacing it with "Darklord/NPC of the Month" and starting with 3e/4e stats and requesting hooks and stories.
But we're all busy so it hasn't started yet.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

I thought of doing a few for fun though there seems to be no aristocrat class so you can't really do some the DLs. Wow, Azalin's got a ton of HP in his one.

[DasSoviet]

This is untrue, at least in my experience of running and playing face-to-face games in both systems.

I guess I should've italicized the I feel part, eh?

I have run a few games in 4e, yes... one shots to try and get a feel (including Keep on the Shadowfell). It's not something I enjoyed DMing, and most of my players had similarly mixed feelings about the game. So I don't dislike it just because, mate. However, your comment on the improvisations, that's true now, yes, but remember that it wasn't the core books of 3.5 which caused the rule bloat, it's the 8 years of rules by WotC and others. Pathfinder runs as cleanly as 4e, and 3.5 can as well if you're smart and limit what goes into your game. If you can't fit all your complex rules on a simple cheat sheet, you've gone overboard, no matter the game or edition.

On the topic of the Darklords, well... if you're planning to defeat them via RPing or if you do not plan on engaging them in combat, then do they need stats at all? If you're just going to be engaging them via skill challenges and the like, I don't think they'd need anything special.

[Igor the Henchman]

I have run a few games in 4e, yes... one shots to try and get a feel (including Keep on the Shadowfell). It's not something I enjoyed DMing, and most of my players had similarly mixed feelings about the game. So I don't dislike it just because, mate.

That's fair. I didn't mean to imply everyone should enjoy 4E. As this poll shows, its clearly a matter of personal playing style.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Now that I'm warming up to 4th ed, I could go either way. Say, are there any alterations for the NPC classes like Assassin, Aristocrat, Expert, etc.?

[Scipion_Emilien]

Forum, my friend, forum... typically, from my own experience of 6 years of play-by-post, forums tend to attract the roleplayers more so then the powergamers Indeed, I'm likely going to end up starting a 4e-forum based game at my forum, as several of the players there have asked for a D&D campaign, and one of them only wants to play 4e, so it seems that's the way we'll be going. However, I have little doubt that running a 4e game on the forums will work far better than on the table top, because of how it plays compared to 3.5. However, the opposite is also true in that I feel that 3.5 is the better tabletop game, and lends itself better to the face-to-face real time interactions of the game table.

I find 4e better at the table because of a smaller data load.

Of course, I must finish this off by saying that I will be buying all 4e videogames that come out, as I think that 4e will not only translate well to the videogame genre, but can be used to create absolutely fantastic games in the virtual medium. As much as I loved Baulder's Gate, Planescape, Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights, they really did have to bend the rules to make it work, and even then it wasn't as good as tabletop. I think 4e may be the first edition able to translate seamlessly online without loosing anything that cannot be compensated for. So, I think as it's going, I'll keep my 4e games on the screen, while 3.5 and Pathfinder will continue to be played with paper, dice, and old Magic tokens on a dry erase board

Ironnically with the position combat system, the actions points and the out-of-combat resolution of 4e seem harder to put to a PC game than 3rd edition. I think 4e will pose a greater challenge than the precedent edition to be portray in video game.