Guns?

[MichaelTumey]

Well, as I stated above in Pathfinder, within the first range increment (and further if you possess a feat or arcane ability that extends that range) works as a ranged touch attack. A characters touch AC is 10 plus any force protections (like Shield spell), but does not include Dex bonus - so there's no way to dodge a bullet based on dexterity, at least not in Pathfinder. Magical means may defend against a firearm, but not mundane - except for enough distance away that ranged touch is not applicable.

[HuManBing]

It could be that the pc may not get even a dex bonus unless he has spent his prior turn watching the gunman and specifies that shooter as the one he wants to dodge.

He may be running around, weaving and feinting, during this turn. But he is limited to one chosen enemy.

Armor could lose its deflection bonus and instead count as damage reduction equal to its original deflection bonus (this was my stopgap solution before I switched to GURPS). With a suitably high damage range for gunshot wounds, it would realistically model armor as being some partial use for soaking up bullet momentum but not as good as completely avoiding getting shot in the first place.

If plate armor still has 8 DR or so then a pistol probably wants to do something like 3d4+1 or 2d6+1 (mean damage 8.5 or 8 respectively) whereas a rifle or musket should do much more than that. The exact range depends on how many hp your pcs have and how lethal you want your guns to be.

Shotguns would be a special case - give them a large number of dice rolls, but keep the dice relatively small (eg 10d6 or whatever) and apply the armor dr against each die. (As mentioned above, shotgun pellets are relatively easy to stop with armor.)

Something to keep in mind could be to give your high level shooters an hd-dependent bonus to shooting, such as 2d6 per level or similar. This means a high level badguy would be a serious threat while still allowing pcs to survive waves of low level mooks. This could reflect an Aimed Shot maneuver where the pc takes a turn our more to line up a vitals or head shot.

This is not an easy shot in real life. A professional shooter compared it to shooting two tennis balls, one two feet above the other, with a bit of reinforced iron bar connecting them. This marks out the target's brain, spine, and heart - the only strike points considered reliable enough to instantly end a gunfight.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Well, as I stated above in Pathfinder, within the first range increment (and further if you possess a feat or arcane ability that extends that range) works as a ranged touch attack. A characters touch AC is 10 plus any force protections (like Shield spell), but does not include Dex bonus - so there's no way to dodge a bullet based on dexterity, at least not in Pathfinder.

Not quite true:

Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally.

Agreed that it's a bit silly to be able to dodge a bullet, but you really are dodging where you think the bullet will be, based on watching the shooter.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

Just came up with this alternate racial trait for humans:

Powder Monkey: You grew up around firearms, and they are commonplace in your circles of influence. You gain a bonus equal to half your character level to Appraise and Craft checks involving firearms. This racial trait replaces the skilled racial trait.

[Zilfer]

Interesting.

[ewancummins]

Just came up with this alternate racial trait for humans:

Powder Monkey: You grew up around firearms, and they are commonplace in your circles of influence. You gain a bonus equal to half your character level to Appraise and Craft checks involving firearms. This racial trait replaces the skilled racial trait.

I kind of want to play a mage with a monkey familiar, and teach the monkey to reload my pistols for me.

Or , you, know, haul a cannon around in cart and have a real powder monkey to help service it.

[HuManBing]

If you do go the cannon route, you may want to invest in a Syrian brown bear!

Although pandas are still way cooler. And have six fingers besides.

[Zilfer]

If you do go the cannon route, you may want to invest in a Syrian brown bear!

Although pandas are still way cooler. And have six fingers besides.

Just learned something new today..... Six fingers..... BOYA!

[DeepShadow of FoS]

I kind of want to play a mage with a monkey familiar, and teach the monkey to reload my pistols for me.

LOL! Great idea! You could do it with a figurine of wondrous power, too. Team it up with a slate spider, and you've got a winning combination!

[ewancummins]

I kind of want to play a mage with a monkey familiar, and teach the monkey to reload my pistols for me.

LOL! Great idea! You could do it with a figurine of wondrous power, too. Team it up with a slate spider, and you've got a winning combination!

Oooh, cool!

I may have to introduce the slate spider in play.

[ewancummins]

If you do go the cannon route, you may want to invest in a Syrian brown bear!

Although pandas are still way cooler. And have six fingers besides.

I've read about him. Very cool. If there is one things bears love, besides honey, it's fighting Nazis.


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn23 ... _small.jpg

[The Giamarga]

Also note that the Pathfinder Core Rules PDF is available for $ 10 at paizo This together with the d20PFSRD should have you well covered for a sneak peak.

[HuManBing]

Back on track, one other advanced realism rule that has been used for gunshot wounds is: the damage is capped at whatever value {X} you care to name. Any excess damage above that cap is then applied as a modifier for the health roll afterwards for bleeding.

This reflects the fact that a bullet could drill straight through a person's body without doing much structural damage, but it leaves a significant hole which facilitates death by blood loss.

The obvious exception would be head and vitals injury, which would have the full damage applied directly to the PC's HP.

[ewancummins]

Back on track, one other advanced realism rule that has been used for gunshot wounds is: the damage is capped at whatever value {X} you care to name. Any excess damage above that cap is then applied as a modifier for the health roll afterwards for bleeding.

This reflects the fact that a bullet could drill straight through a person's body without doing much structural damage, but it leaves a significant hole which facilitates death by blood loss.

The obvious exception would be head and vitals injury, which would have the full damage applied directly to the PC's HP.

I'd only use such a rule if other injuries were made more potentially lethal. How grimly realistic do you want to get? Are you going to include rules for hypovolemic shock from non GSW injuries? Paralysis from spinal injuries? Brain damage from head trauma? I could go on for a long, long time.


EDIT- The real 'problem' with 'realiism' in D&D combat is that hit points increase by level. If you want a deadlier game,without complex rules added, you could try this:

Hit points= CON score+ one half HD by class (the class taken at 1st level- no boosts for multiclassing). This never rises, except by taking the Toughness feat or raising CON.


A wizard with an 8 CON thus has 10 hit points. This is much better than the 1 or 2 hit points he would likely have under the standard rules. A housecat won't kill him, but a crit from a dagger certainly could.

A barbarian with an 18 CON has 24 hit points. Tough SOB! He's very hard to kill without repeated strikes, but one really nasty critical strike could bring him down.

All this is 3E, but it could be adapted to other editions.

I don't actually use these rules ( I have a more Gygaxian view of hit points as an abstraction. HP represent not just to the body's normal health and resistance to injury- but also skill, heroic grit, luck, and even divine favor).

YMMV

[HuManBing]

I agree that reality-simulation tends to yield diminishing returns in any game system. The other approach is to determine the desired effect and then to build the system around that.

Specific to the post you quoted, the in-game GURPS effect that such a rule would have is to make gun fighting a quick show-stopper but less likely to be immediately lethal. It would likely put a guy on the ground, neutralizing him as a threat, while still giving him a few minutes of remaining life to be stabilized. For a mook, this is probably irrelevant but for a boss or PC, it's a way that the GM can end a fight without ending the entire campaign and rerolling key npc or pc stats.

Again this is only helpful if you happen to be in a campaign that plays to these tastes. I heartily echo your YMMV disclaimer across all my posts.