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How does a cleric lose his powers in Ravenloft? On other planes they lose them when they stray too far from their god's dogma, but in the demiplane the gods have no power. Do the books say something about this? I seem to remember reading that clerics losing their spells is not so much a 'Your god is displeased with your actions. Go forth and atone.' as it is a matter of conscience. The cleric knows that what he did was wrong, and thus deprives himself of his powers. Is this in the RL-books, or am I confusing it with what I read elsewhere?

The gods have no voice in Ravenloft. But they still can lend their powers to their clerics. The Gods cannot directly communicate with mortals on the demiplane of dread.

As far as that goes, any cleric that strays from his/her god enough that he/she would normally be denied her prayers, the same is true in Ravenloft.

Clerics would possibly do so more often because of self doubt. In my campaign, the gods can only communicate with their clerics through vague dreams that are readily misinterpreted.

Misinterpretation could lead to a denial of powers if the cleric critically misjudges his god's will.

With clerics in Ravenloft, I pretty much ignore the alignment aspect. As long as the cleric can justify that they are doing their god's will, they keep their powers. That's why the clerics of Belenus can have so many barbeques and not have to worry about it.

For players, if they act against their diety's will, I question them on it. If their answer falls in line with their past behavior or a fair justification, they can kee their powers. They'll still have powers checks if the act required it, of course.

Another way to reconcile the brutal acts which some of Belenus's self-proclaimed "faithful" have been getting away with is to presume that, if a cleric of a Good religion commits sufficiently Evil actions in their faith's name, the Dark Powers may step in and start granting their spells in the original deity's place. In effect, it's another kind of "Terror Track" that can be applied to divine spellcasters: one that deceives corrupt clergy or ex-paladins into believing their deity endorses their Evil actions, hence fostering another kind of Evil -- religious intolerance -- within the Land of Mists.

Note that this doesn't presuppose -- as some gross misinterpretations of the 2E Ravenloft rules claimed -- that ALL clerics in the Land of Mists get their spells from the DPs; it's just the ones whose corruption can advance a cause of breeding Evil within the domains, whom the Dark Powers care to invest with spells in this manner.

Also note that in the normal game a cleric doesn't need to follow a deity...only an ethos...

And the rules remain the same.

The same is true in Ravenloft...Clerics get their power from their will and their devotion...

Its kind of like how the Druid works (different of course...). The druid doesn't worship a particular god...

I don't know.
I just don't like the idea of a (normally good) cleric being able to perform gross violations of the tenets of their faith, ala committing evil acts worthy of powers checks, and still keeping their granted powers, even if the Dark Powers grant them in their deity's place.
I mean, what's to stop an anchorite of Ezra from placing children under Her protection by sacrificing them to her on the defiled altars of another's god? I mean, for all intents and purposes, the anchorite will still get his spells and shield ability, and he'll think, "Golly, I guess Ezra likes me for doing this, I'll go offer her more children!"
Anyone understand what I mean?

Gemathustra wrote:I don't know.
I just don't like the idea of a (normally good) cleric being able to perform gross violations of the tenets of their faith, ala committing evil acts worthy of powers checks, and still keeping their granted powers, even if the Dark Powers grant them in their deity's place.
I mean, what's to stop an anchorite of Ezra from placing children under Her protection by sacrificing them to her on the defiled altars of another's god? I mean, for all intents and purposes, the anchorite will still get his spells and shield ability, and he'll think, "Golly, I guess Ezra likes me for doing this, I'll go offer her more children!"
Anyone understand what I mean?

But can the cleric explain his actions in Ezra's plan. In the sacred texts and the dogma of the religion itself. Its a question of fanatacism. If the cleric truely believed that sacrificing the kids to hand them safely into Ezra's hands while they were still innocent (to protect them from the Legions of Night), then yes, he'd keep his power. Of course, explaining the unhallowed altar of a dark god would be "somewhat" difficult to explain in those terms.

It allows for corrupt clergy in good religions, and keeps the players from simply asking for proof of power.

I dunno.
Maybe I just want a bigger warning bell.

Gemathustra wrote:I dunno.
Maybe I just want a bigger warning bell.

As a DM, its up to you. My reading of the Unspoken Pact was that gods provide poer to their faithful, but cannot see what they're up to. If the cleric's faith is pure, the god can't tell that they've completely twisted their teachings.

If you want to hold the player to breaking faith, go ahead, but clear warning bells should be few and far between in Ravenloft.

Troile wrote:Also note that in the normal game a cleric doesn't need to follow a deity...only an ethos...

And the rules remain the same.

True that, but I prefer clerics to follow a god, not just an ideal or 'the Power of Good'. It provides more guidelines for the cleric, because the dogma is more layed out.

In the case of the child-sacrificing Anchorite, I'd definately let him keep his powers. (remember, there ARE LE clerics of Ezra, and it's even possible that Ezra may be a manifestation of the DP's anyway, since her clerics lose their powers outside of Ravenloft.) But it's clearly an act of ultimate darkness, and an auto-failed power check or two is a pretty good warning bell.

Even if it was an outlander cleric of some LG diety, I'd do the same. If you think that deities can see their followers(which I don't) the diety may cut you off and the DP's take over. Otherwise, the diety keeps granting them. But either way, failed power-check central....