Café de Nuit

A very nice book! A must read for all of us.
Tons of Salient abilities to make this 7th level wizard and his 20 - 30 zombies and skeletons memorable.
Not to mention that for the "academic" people that want to talk about undead with their friends (not just variations, but habits, nature etc.) this book has much to offer.

I loved this book.

- You want your 4th level characters fight something memorable but not as overpowering as a 2nd magnitude mummy? This book is for you!

- You want your 11th level characters stop yawing when you describe the scuffling sounds of about 10 Zombies approaching? This book is for you!

- You want a 5th level evil cleric with a few memorable bodyguards? This book is for you!

- You want the deranged/totally mad necromancer that wants to make the ultimate zombie horror? And want to provide the PCs with all the
stages of his experiments from the usual slow "Why-in-earth-somebody-would-use-this-as-a-guard?" zombie to the "Oh-My-God-not-this!" zombie? This book is for you!

- You just like skeletons and would know what they think and IF they think? This book is for you!

- Want to know what motivates a ghoul? This book is for you!

- Never thought that wights were a real menace or special? This book is for you!

- The name "Toben the Many" doesn't mean anything to you, but you loved the ability of the ex-agent Smith of Matrix to imprint his personality on others? This book is for you!

I didn't like just a few things and I think I found a mistake:
The Obedient dead named "Ravyanatha" shouldn't have CR 13. A Tough creature to be sure, but I believe that its CR is about 6 - 7.

And I disagree that the hungry dead should lose a HD every day. I would make it every week.

Yeah, I know that these don't even count, but they are the only things that I disagreed with (and I still remember).
And those that remember me, know that I tend to disagree a lot!

Not much to add - really great book. Some new cool feats, too (Voracious etc.). Good writing style, good atmosphere. Made me want to play a zombie-campaign, something that has never happened before. And that`s what I did.

Thank you people. Kind words greatly appreciated.

I recently made heavy use of the book in my campaign and it was a success, but I ended up with a question. In fact the question was asked from my sister:

"How doesn't Toben the Many become a Darklord?"

The adventurers had to deal with Toben the Many and his "pranks" in many cases and discovered some hineous crimes he did. Every time, answering was getting more and more difficult. The answer:
"The dark powers work in mysterious ways, that mortals cannot comprehend" Was earning more and more disbelieving looks and chuckles of sarcasm. Since the characters don't know about Darklords (only that doing bad things can induce a curse upon you, that is power checks) I didn't have to answer this question in game.

But the question still burns inside me.

How doesn't Toben the Many become a Darklord? While he is the favorite of the mists and can torment people killing their relatives for fun, destroying whole orphanhouses, killing families just to recruit a few more bodies for "fun"?

And another more practical question.
What types can Toben take over? Shapechangers? Hags? Monstrous humanoids? Aberrations?
The book only says: After he kills someone he raises as a Toben Zombie.
Does he imprints himself to undead he destroys too?

I don't see undead he destroys rising again as Toben Zombies, other than that, I have any humanoid destroyed/killed by Toben rising again as a Toben Zombie.

Why isn't he a darklord? Well, he is more dangerous spreading from land to land so perhaps the Powers prefer that he has his freedom.
Or perhaps it is hard to assign guilt to someone who didn't actually kill anyone, even if a copy of the personality/mind did.
Or, because he was spread out he could not be isolated and drawn into the Mists.

Really, it's just because not every cool and unique villian has to be a darklord.

David of the Frat wrote:Why isn't he a darklord? Well, he is more dangerous spreading from land to land so perhaps the Powers prefer that he has his freedom.
Or perhaps it is hard to assign guilt to someone who didn't actually kill anyone, even if a copy of the personality/mind did.
Or, because he was spread out he could not be isolated and drawn into the Mists.

- All darklords would be more dangerous if free to roam the land.
- What about Malken? And also Tristen isn't dead, he is still around his body.
Also, Toben destroys the personality killing the body (freeing the soul) so it isn't someone who didn't kill anyone, it is someone who killed for fun hundreds of people and spread diseases in a new body.
- Then why Toben is afraid that the mists may someday transport all of him to Darkon? And to be frank, I don't think that the mists would have so great a problem picking him up from everywhere.


I tried these answers. I tried even more answers. Like
"He is totally insane, so the DP can not actually blame him enough to make him a darklord."
- The answer was "Death is insane too, and he is a Darklord. Some darklords actually believe they are doing the good thing, yet they are cursed."

David of the Frat wrote: Really, it's just because not every cool and unique villain has to be a darklord.

This is the answer that holds truth, but it is a metagame answer. I tried that too. At least it settled things like "Why can't I cast evil spells for a good purpose while he can kill for fun?"

PS. It is frustrating. I have used many great villains, some memorable, some not, that are NOT darklords and I never had this problem!

Toben isn't human enough to be a darklord, IMO; I'm not even convinced he started out as a human. Perhaps he originated as a contagious varient of the Animate Dead spell, that took on a "life" of its own, kind of like the living spells of Eberron. Whatever his origin, Toben clearly lacks the vital "there but for the grace of the gods" factor which the DPs generally look for in a darklord, nowadays.

Personality-conflicts are also critical components of any darklord: internal conflicts over their past misdeeds and/or conflicts with others who oppose them. Give Toben a domain, OTOH, and within weeks there'll be nobody left in that domain but more of him. Where's the conflict in that...? Plus, as a true sociopath, he's got no regrets for anything he's done, so can't be tormented by his past crimes; it'd be like giving a fiend a true, permanent, fixed domain rather than just a reality wrinkle.

Metagame answers for questions like that are the only real asnswers, he was simply a cool idea for a new villian. In the early days he would have been shoved in some new dimain as every villian had to have one and some one-shot adventure would have been based around killing him and escaping.
Now the writers feel confident making non-DL baddies and these are more common.

Any in-game reason from the DPs being ficle and mysterious to loop-holes in morality are just justifications and fan-wanking.

I personally accept the metagame answer just fine. But how about one of these answers:

- Toben is an extension or creation of the DP's themselves.
- Toben is enough of a thorn in the side of the other darklords that the Dark Powers want him to be free to annoy them.

gonzoron wrote: - Toben is an extension or creation of the DP's themselves.

Then why would being in Darkon frighten him so much?

gonzoron wrote: - Toben is enough of a thorn in the side of the other darklords that the Dark Powers want him to be free to annoy them.

I dunno...
Doesn't sound like their style...
They always tailor their annoyances to their victims.

alhoon wrote:This is the answer that holds truth, but it is a metagame answer. I tried that too. At least it settled things like "Why can't I cast evil spells for a good purpose while he can kill for fun?"

PS. It is frustrating. I have used many great villains, some memorable, some not, that are NOT darklords and I never had this problem!

While it may be a metagame answer, its as good as any answer when dealing with unknowable deity-like entities.

If every truely evil villan became a darklord, Ravenloft would be absolutely huge. Every game would end with a darklord as the final target, and everyone with even the slightest of occult knowledge would know the nature of the masters of the land.

Adding a new domain isn't something to be taken lightly, and some player's feel that their characters are entitled to domains if they fall that far into corruption. As the DM, if I don't feel that the character warrents a domain, I can say no, even as the character becomes an NPC. If it gets bad, I can point to other villans, such as Toben, the Living Brain, or Natalia Vhorishkova. All are undisputably evil, but don't have domains.

Besides, Tobin's big threat is that he can be found anywhere. If you cage him, all that needs to happen is an escape.

Just wanted to say that for me, the Dark Powers choose the darklord by their evil deeds but also by the potential to curse them. Some truly evil characters aren't cursable, at least not in an original way. For instance, every lich could potentially become an Azalin, every wizard too. But no other wizard and/or lich domain will appear till a lich who can have an original curse arrive. And I do believe the Dark Powers, in my games, look for originality like we DMs look for.

So the question shouldn't be if Toben should become a darklord, its more: WHat good symbolic curse could I give him?

The way I see it, making Toben a DL would remove a fundimental part of his character through his curse, his ability to roam the domains. I also feel that his curse would infringe on his ability to imprint himself on others, reducing the scare factor of the character. This would also reduce the appeal and uniqueness of Toben the Many.

Gemathustra wrote:

gonzoron wrote:- Toben is an extension or creation of the DP's themselves.

Then why would being in Darkon frighten him so much?

He is more human than we think. He knows that he is undead and he knows the truth about Azalin and his ability to control undead. He has also determined the limits of his existence. He is NOT the bodies that he possesses. He is the ESSENCE and INTELLECT behind them their force of will. If Azalin ever tried to control Toben's host, he would eliminate Toben's control and therefore his existence from the land of the mists. Toben fears for his own self-preservation.

Also, the fact that he may be an extension of the DPs does not mean he knows about them.

Tobias Blackburn wrote:Adding a new domain isn't something to be taken lightly, and some player's feel that their characters are entitled to domains if they fall that far into corruption. As the DM, if I don't feel that the character warrents a domain, I can say no, even as the character becomes an NPC. If it gets bad, I can point to other villans, such as Toben, the Living Brain, or Natalia Vhorishkova. All are undisputably evil, but don't have domains.

Also remember that nothing is forcing you to send the character to Stage 6 of the Power's Check scale. The RL:DMG even suggests just keeping a character at stage 5 but not advancing it if it would be too much work or is too much of a hassle.