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Do full blooded Vistani require a level adjustment for a PC? They are a bitt powerful and typically are not used as PC's but the point is if the DM allows it is there a listed level adjustment. All I remember seeing in the core book is that they reccomend that you don't allow full Vistani players. Is there some sort of ECL in Denizens of Darkness?

IDHTBIFOM, so I can't say if there was a level adjustment for full-blooded Vistani in any of the RL monster (or other) books.

However, the *real* problem with allowing full-blooded Vistani isn't that they're powerful, but rather, that permitting a player to control one can really spoil the mystery posed by these enigmatic, fascinating people. Their culture is supposed to be perplexing and strange to giorgios -- it's why they fit into the Gothic nature of the setting, and why DMs can get away with using them as a cryptic plot-device -- yet letting a player portray such a character would give away far too much of their society, behavior, and secrets. Would you let a player in a Middle-Earth-based game role-play a reformed orc commander who knows all of Sauron's military secrets? Probably not, irregardless of the orc's character level.

Granted, a player might dodge this issue by asking to play a full-blooded Vistani who was raised by non-Vistani. That would avoid much of the loss of mystique for the gypsy culture. But isn't that what the half-Vistani are already a part of the 3E Ravenloft game for...?

It might be fun to run a group of sessions or a mini-campaign that feature an entire group made from vistani characters. Make them all Mortu and have it so that they prefer not to discuss about their pasts, so they do not really need to know much abuot vistani society and heritage.

I would say that all full-blooded vistani would have some level adjustment though.

Considering that certain Vistani abilities aren't even statted out--the time walking of the Zarovan, for example--attempting to come up with level adjustments for them is an exercise in futility, and any ECL that one might be able to find would consequently be of little more value than a random dice roll. If you really want to play a full-blooded Vistani, the lack of a level adjustment is actually the least of your problems.

I understand there are other things involved in playing a Vistani, but the ECL is what I was asking about.

Snake wrote:I understand there are other things involved in playing a Vistani, but the ECL is what I was asking about.

True, but the other things are what make it difficult to almost impossible to provide the Vistani with an ECL. The simple fact is that they are meant to have powers and abilities outside of the standard rules. This is why the Ravenloft Campaign Setting book states that Vistani shouldn't be used as player characters.

However, an ECL of 3 or 4 could potentially work (considering that they have the ability to curse, use the evil eye, travel safely through the mists, divine the future, and a few other abilities based on race and tribe). Again, I am just trying to look at this from a more mechanical view and doesn't take into consideration the various other benefits a vistani character might have.

I really don't see the Vistani's powers and abilities to be a problem, but thanks anyway. And though the standard rules don't provide a way to play a Vistani, well, thats what being a DM is about, making up rules that don't exist.

I think if you were to give an explanation of why there is a vistani PC and the context involved with that character then people would be better able to help you out.

And besides I'm sure we're all curious.

I got what I needed. Thanks.

When this came up earlier I suggested new skills fot the Vistani special abilities. Mist walking and seeing the future. So if the PC needed or wanted those abilities they'd have to be paid for.
The idea being that no group has people skilled at everything and most are simple nomads.