Café de Nuit

When Domains of Dread introduced the Half-Vistani as a playable race for AD&D 2nd edition, it mentions there are also Elf/Vistani hybrids, called "Giamarga" to the Vistani/Human's' "Giamorgo". However, it also said that players should not be allowed to play them. But, years later, TSR did throw them a bone when it published Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani. In the appendix, it notes that there are half-vistani of elven heritage, and it tells the reader that, with the DM's permission, they may use the Mortu Vistani kit combined with the Half-Elf race, while specifically noting that half-human/half-vistani should use the half-vistani racial writeup from Domains of Dread.

Now, in my opinion, the writeup is a little murky on how the "Vistani Kit" and the Half-Elf actually merge together, and I was wondering if people have their opinions on these slightly abstract rules for Giamarga? Below is my take on the subject, from reading VRGttV and cross-referencing it with both the AD&D 2e PHB and Domains of Dread...

Giamarga
Racial Ability Modifiers: +1 Intelligence, +1 Wisdom, -2 Charisma (the book specifically calls out "half-vistani" getting these modifiers, contrasting the -2 Int of a Mortu Vistani; the Half-Elf has no racial ability modifiers)
Mandatory Ability Scores: 6+ Dexterity, 6+ Constitution, 4+ Intelligence (PHB Half-Elf) or 13+ Dex and 10+ Int (DoD Half-Elf)
Ability Score Maximums: 18 in all scores (PHB Half-Elf)

Available Warrior Classes: Avenger, Fighter, Ranger
Available Priest Classes: Cleric, Druid
Available Wizard Classes: Mage, Specialist Wizard, Psionicist
* Per DoD, a Half-Elf can became a Conjurer, a Diviner, an Enchanter, or an Illusionist. Per VRG, a Half-Vistani can become an Arcanist, Conjurer, Enchanter or Illusionist - or a Diviner, IF they're female. Not sure how to reconcile for a Giamarga.
Available Rogue Classes: Thief, Bard (PHB), Gypsy (DoD)
Level Limits: Unlimited Bard levels, Cleric 14, Druid 9, Fighter 14, Wizard (Any) 12, Ranger 16, Thief 12, Unlimited Psionicist levels.
* DoD doesn't give any race restrictions on how far they can rise in the Avenger or Gypsy classes.
* One thing not covered in any official source is how to reconcile Half-Elves being allowed to become Bards and Druids in the PHB, when these classes are forbidden for native-born Half-Elves in Domains of Dread.

Racial Bonuses:
* Can identify plants, animals, and pure water, as per Druid.
* No penalties to Fire-building checks for high winds, rainy conditions, or damp fuel, and can automatically start a fire in optimum conditions.
* Only a 5% chance of misinterpreting words in Patterna (the Vistania language) on a failed Int check to decipher it.
* Can find & interpret paaterns (Vistani glyph-language) on a D6 roll of 1-4.
* Can take proficiency in Astrology, regardless of class. A Wizard can take Astrology for only 1 Proficiency Slot.
* 30% Resistance to Sleep & Charm spells.
* Infravision 60 feet.
* Heightened chance to detect secret doors.
* +1 bonus to Fear and Horror checks.
* Select a single Vistani Tribe, and receive a racial bonus based on that tribe, as detailed in VRGttV.

Racial Penalties:
* Cannot Specialize in weapons, even if a Warrior class.
* Cannot have Extraordinary strength.
* Racial level limit for Wizard classes is 10th level.
* If using "pay for training" rules, DOUBLE the costs to train.
* Suffers Moon Madness, as detailed in VRGttV.

Hell_Born wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 1:02 am
* DoD doesn't give any race restrictions on how far they can rise in the Avenger or Gypsy classes.
* One thing not covered in any official source is how to reconcile Half-Elves being allowed to become Bards and Druids in the PHB, when these classes are forbidden for native-born Half-Elves in Domains of Dread.

So... My first thought reading these lines was 'This would never be a problem in later editions, cause you don't need to figure out what classes every race can take and to what level if you just let everyone choose whatever class they want'. It's a silly, inefficient (not to mention racist) mechanic that makes little in-world sense.

But I'm not here to complain. The fun with unnecessarily strict rules is that you can cause a surprising amount of chaos (or inspiration) by following them to the letter.

So. Why can't half-elves be bards or druids in the dread realms even though they can in other worlds?

Let's think.
Bard is about the power of art and emotions, Druid is about connection to nature. Both of these classes are very personal and emotional. If you can't be a sorcerer you just weren't born with the magic, if you can't be a wizard you have a problem with book-learning or with the arcane - but if you can't be a bard or a druid in a world where other people can, what does it mean about you?
Especially when we're in a gothic setting, where the world responding to your emotions is a big part of the atmosphere.
I think it means either you don't have much of an inner world going on, or that for some reason your magic is disconnected from it.
That's what I have so far. What's your opinion?

There's a much simpler reason the 2e Ravenloft Half-Elf can't be a bard or a druid - those classes aren't native to Ravenloft (see the section in DoD on Imported Characters, pages 279-280).

Domains of Dread on druids: "Being an unnatural world, the Demiplane is not home to many of these folk. This is not to say that such priests are not encountered among the Mists. Those who are trapped in Ravenloft, however, are almost exclusively natives of another world."

And on bards: "Only in the domain of Kartakass are true bards found...they are all wolfweres, not suitable for use as player characters."

The Dark wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2026 6:15 pm There's a much simpler reason the 2e Ravenloft Half-Elf can't be a bard or a druid - those classes aren't native to Ravenloft (see the section in DoD on Imported Characters, pages 279-280).

Domains of Dread on druids: "Being an unnatural world, the Demiplane is not home to many of these folk. This is not to say that such priests are not encountered among the Mists. Those who are trapped in Ravenloft, however, are almost exclusively natives of another world."

And on bards: "Only in the domain of Kartakass are true bards found...they are all wolfweres, not suitable for use as player characters."

Ahhh....

Even though it's not necessary as an explanation for 2e, the "disconnection from emotions" thing could be a good concept to explore in 3e or 5e Ravenloft with a culture that can't access the "spontaneous caster" classes.

For 2e, the third "they don't live here" class is Paladin, for somewhat obvious reasons in the grimmer version that was the early setting (3e and 5e each sneak a bit closer to the "heroic dark fantasy" side of the line that divides that subgenre from "fantasy horror").

Giamarga should presumably also have access to the witch/warlock kit from Van Richten's Guide to Witches. It's open to humans, elves, half-elves, Vistani, and half-Vistani. Since giamarga are half-Vistani half-elves, both halves of their heritage have access to the kit. They have to be a non-spellcasting, non-psionic class (so Avenger, Fighter, or Thief), and get limited spellcasting (IIRC, it's roughly on par with Bard casting for spell slots). Witches get access to some Priest Spheres and Warlocks access to some Wizard Schools. If they form a coven, Witches get some Schools and Warlocks some Spheres (but not the same ones that the other half of the kit has access to). A big thing for 2e is they don't need any components, just an arcane focus, but they can't cast in armor which is kind of a big deal for Avengers or Fighters. In exchange, they double the XP needed for each level, which generally puts them 1 level behind a non-Witch member of their class.

For the specialist wizards, I'd let the Giamarga be Conjurer, Enchanter, or Illusionist, with female Giamarga being able to be Diviners. A player wanting to be an Arcanist or male Diviner would have to give me an interesting back story - basically taking the position that they can exist, but they're so rare they need a good reason to be a PC.