Café de Nuit

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue May 05, 2026 9:10 am
Would a bard who desires lichdom do the same? Not quite. The bardic 'Intoner' earns his immortallity through memory, in the literal sense: As long as people remember his greatest masterpiece, his Magnum Opus, he stays alive. His phylactery isn't an item, but his fanbase! Isn't this awesome?

Baron Von Stanton wrote: Tue May 05, 2026 9:40 am

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue May 05, 2026 9:10 am
Would a bard who desires lichdom do the same? Not quite. The bardic 'Intoner' earns his immortallity through memory, in the literal sense: As long as people remember his greatest masterpiece, his Magnum Opus, he stays alive. His phylactery isn't an item, but his fanbase! Isn't this awesome?

This makes me think (in an inverted way) of the Coronach, a species of bardic lich created when a(n evil) bard performs a ritual where they play the first song they ever learned on their instrument for ten days straight, and, if successful, they die and their soul inhabits their instrument. Because the only way to permanently slay a coronach is to play the first song they ever learned on their instrument-phylactery, among the first evil deeds a newly created coronach performs are the murders of their assistants, close associates, friends and family in order to eliminate anyone and everyone who might know this weakness.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Coronach

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Wed May 06, 2026 9:21 am So let's start with the Intoner lich.

Ravenloft's most musical domain in Kartakass, so if there's one place where you can find intoners, it's there.
I don't think they'd be common, but they will be known, at least in legend - and not necessarily as monsters.
I mean, undeath is usually a taboo in DND*, but come on! Intoners don't kill people or meddle with dark forces. It's their music that immortalizes them, and the love of their listeners. They simply succeed in what is the subconcious aspiration of every performer trying to break out. The Kartakans find it relatable, even admirable. They view intoners with awe, but not horror. Some are even seen as cultural heroes, responsible for songs and stories that have become staples of the culture. A truly evil intoner is seen as something of a fallen angel.
There are about 5 in the whole domain, however, and for the majority of the time they either disguise themselves as mortal performers for convienience or travel from place to place, leaving as suddenly and mysteriously as they arrived.
(Plot Hook: Intoner lichdom has been theorized to be the reason for Harkon Lukas' longetivity. This is not true - yet. He's working on it. This would turn him from one of the weakest darklords to one of the most powerful ones, unless he's stopped... And how do you stop a song?)

Dementlieu too has an artistic streak to it, but I don't think an aspiring intoner would have much hope there. Trends shift so quickly there that creating a piece that will truly stand out and be remembered for eternity is twice as hard. (Maybe we can even put this into the mechanics, giving native Dementlieuse characters an advantage against being infected with the Magnum Opus!) More attempts end with normal death than with undeath - but it's hard to tell until years later, for an intoner with few living phylacteries might take months or even years to return.
(Plot hook: You're asked to investigate the death of a young superstar, which the police considers most likely to be a suicide but the family insists there's something fishy about. The twist is, that the singer had killed themselves, but in attempt to live forever. And might return to wreck some havoc, if your party is ready for a CR18 monster.)

Baron Von Stanton wrote: Wed May 06, 2026 10:35 pm

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Wed May 06, 2026 9:21 am So let's start with the Intoner lich.

Ravenloft's most musical domain in Kartakass, so if there's one place where you can find intoners, it's there.
I don't think they'd be common, but they will be known, at least in legend - and not necessarily as monsters.
I mean, undeath is usually a taboo in DND*, but come on! Intoners don't kill people or meddle with dark forces. It's their music that immortalizes them, and the love of their listeners. They simply succeed in what is the subconcious aspiration of every performer trying to break out. The Kartakans find it relatable, even admirable. They view intoners with awe, but not horror. Some are even seen as cultural heroes, responsible for songs and stories that have become staples of the culture. A truly evil intoner is seen as something of a fallen angel.
There are about 5 in the whole domain, however, and for the majority of the time they either disguise themselves as mortal performers for convienience or travel from place to place, leaving as suddenly and mysteriously as they arrived.
(Plot Hook: Intoner lichdom has been theorized to be the reason for Harkon Lukas' longetivity. This is not true - yet. He's working on it. This would turn him from one of the weakest darklords to one of the most powerful ones, unless he's stopped... And how do you stop a song?)

Dementlieu too has an artistic streak to it, but I don't think an aspiring intoner would have much hope there. Trends shift so quickly there that creating a piece that will truly stand out and be remembered for eternity is twice as hard. (Maybe we can even put this into the mechanics, giving native Dementlieuse characters an advantage against being infected with the Magnum Opus!) More attempts end with normal death than with undeath - but it's hard to tell until years later, for an intoner with few living phylacteries might take months or even years to return.
(Plot hook: You're asked to investigate the death of a young superstar, which the police considers most likely to be a suicide but the family insists there's something fishy about. The twist is, that the singer had killed themselves, but in attempt to live forever. And might return to wreck some havoc, if your party is ready for a CR18 monster.)

I suddenly had a flash of the lead cantor or chanteur of the Grand Cathedral of Ezra in Levkarest, Borca being an intoner lich, and that they survived Camille Dilisnya's various purges by having beaten her to the punch.

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Thu May 07, 2026 4:37 am

Baron Von Stanton wrote: Wed May 06, 2026 10:35 pm I suddenly had a flash of the lead cantor or chanteur of the Grand Cathedral of Ezra in Levkarest, Borca being an intoner lich, and that they survived Camille Dilisnya's various purges by having beaten her to the punch.

'Having beaten her to the punch'?
Sorry, English isn't my native language.

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Wed May 06, 2026 9:21 am So let's start with the Intoner lich.

Ravenloft's most musical domain in Kartakass, so if there's one place where you can find intoners, it's there.
I don't think they'd be common, but they will be known, at least in legend - and not necessarily as monsters.
I mean, undeath is usually a taboo in DND*, but come on! Intoners don't kill people or meddle with dark forces. It's their music that immortalizes them, and the love of their listeners. They simply succeed in what is the subconcious aspiration of every performer trying to break out. The Kartakans find it relatable, even admirable. They view intoners with awe, but not horror. Some are even seen as cultural heroes, responsible for songs and stories that have become staples of the culture. A truly evil intoner is seen as something of a fallen angel.
There are about 5 in the whole domain, however, and for the majority of the time they either disguise themselves as mortal performers for convienience or travel from place to place, leaving as suddenly and mysteriously as they arrived.
(Plot Hook: Intoner lichdom has been theorized to be the reason for Harkon Lukas' longetivity. This is not true - yet. He's working on it. This would turn him from one of the weakest darklords to one of the most powerful ones, unless he's stopped... And how do you stop a song?)

Dementlieu too has an artistic streak to it, but I don't think an aspiring intoner would have much hope there. Trends shift so quickly there that creating a piece that will truly stand out and be remembered for eternity is twice as hard. (Maybe we can even put this into the mechanics, giving native Dementlieuse characters an advantage against being infected with the Magnum Opus!) More attempts end with normal death than with undeath - but it's hard to tell until years later, for an intoner with few living phylacteries might take months or even years to return.
(Plot hook: You're asked to investigate the death of a young superstar, which the police considers most likely to be a suicide but the family insists there's something fishy about. The twist is, that the singer had killed themselves, but in attempt to live forever. And might return to wreck some havoc, if your party is ready for a CR18 monster.)


*VRGttL specifically says that unlike in other worlds, where liches can be of any alignment, in Ravenloft all liches are evil. In both the in-world narration AND the metagaming blurb.
I understand the reason for this decision: Having a lich as an ally in your games can be overpowered, especially in a horror game where you are supposed to be fighting against overwhelming odds.
But I honestly think this warning is useless: DMs don't need your help to know the undead wizard feasting on souls can be evil, and if one of them has an idea for a good one, the book telling them it's impossible won't stop them. Same for any alignment restriction. I think it would be have been a lot wiser to say in the blurb 'Van Richten is making a crude generalization here, but understandably. Good and neutral liches are rare, especially in the land of mists, and the destruction caused by their evil kin is far more noticable. You may include liches of any alignment in your campaigns, but please consider the effects this would have on both narrative and balance.'
Another direction they could go in was giving an explicit in-world reason for liches always being evil in Ravenloft. The most direct reason I can think of is the way necromancy attracts the DP's attention, even when used for a good purpose. Almost every step on the path to lichdom promotes a powers check. (How about we do a specific path of corruption for necromancers?)
Any way, In this thread I'm gonna talk about liches of all alignments. It's just more fun to me. And frankly, the reason I love intoners is that they can work as spooky patrons for your party as well as villains.