Café de Nuit

I am thinking of using the book as part of my campaign. The idea is that since the book is written strictly from Azalin's viewpoint what he thinks is the truth is not really the truth. It is just another way the DPs are screwing with him. He indirectly manipulates things so the other DLs investigate but they all see it differently. I think Strahd would see them as yugoloth lords due to the events in I, Strahd. How would these DLs see them?

1) Halzik
2)Easan
3)Dominik
4)Gabrielle Aidaire
5)Alfred Timothy
6) Godfrey
7) The Dukkar , who is a Dark Lord in my game
8)Meredoth
9) Urik
10) Alp Blanc

1) Halzik
Being from Thay, he would percieve the Dark Powers as unnamed deities

2)Easan
Probably, he would see them as Abyssal lords, and the source of the demon he thinks he is tied to.

3)Dominik
I can't see how the mundane-minded Dominic could ever discover such a thing. But he could rationalize them as a conspirancy and try to take the upper hand on it.

4)Gabrielle Aidaire
She would tie it to the Gentleman Caller.

5)Alfred Timothy
He would see the Dark Powers as a pack of wolf deities, with the Wolf God as Avatar.

6) Godfrey
Even as a ghost, Godefrey is not versed in this kind of things, he would seethem as vengefull ghosts who enjoys his sufferings.

7) The Dukkar , who is a Dark Lord in my game.
He would tie it to the Vistani.

8)Meredoth
If for Azalin they are capricious negative-energy beings, for Meredoth they will be stern arch-devils oppressors.

9) Urik
Urik balme is fate on spellcaster, hewould see the powers as powerfull spellcasters.

10) Alp Blanc
He would tie the dark Powers to natural forces, as he blame druids forhis blight.

Meredoth would maybe see them as tied to one of the countries opposed to Alphatia from Mystara. Maybe the fire wizard group brought up in the novels that used to be from the same original world as the Alphatians.

Mistmaster wrote: 9) Urik
Urik balme is fate on spellcaster, hewould see the powers as powerfull spellcasters.

Given his history and his defection from the Kargat, is it farfetched to say that Urik might think Azalin is somehow behind it?

Mistmaster wrote: 3)Dominik
I can't see how the mundane-minded Dominic could ever discover such a thing. But he could rationalize them as a conspirancy and try to take the upper hand on it.

Because the DPs are screwing with him and are allowing themselves to be "discovered" but yes I could see him picture them part of a great conspiracy.

Hazgarn wrote:

Mistmaster wrote: 9) Urik
Urik balme is fate on spellcaster, hewould see the powers as powerfull spellcasters.

Given his history and his defection from the Kargat, is it farfetched to say that Urik might think Azalin is somehow behind it?

Quite possible, in which case he thinks Azalin is even more crafty and viler than he appears. This would mean the whole thing is just a sick game of Azalin.

Strahd seems to refer to the Dark Powers collectively as "Death", after the entity he made his dark pact with. I doubt he would think of them as yugoloth lords as in the Grand Conjunction modules it's revealed he made his first pact with the arcanaloth Inajira and the latter doesn't seem to acknowledge any connection to the Dark Powers. It also wouldn't necessarily make sense to make a deal with a Yugoloth entity to escape the contract of another one.

As for the others

2) I can see Easan blaming Iuz or his abyssal progenitors when he's in his more lucid phases. However, it seems to be stated that he's lost some degree of memory over why he performs his research, so it's possible that he's lost enough memories of the past to make the connection. Easan may be so entranced by his blasphemous work that he may not take a lot of time to consider the nature of the Dark Powers.

3) I think in one of the BoS articles it says that the leader of the Neutral branch of the Church of Ezra is one of the Obedient. If Dominque has her or other scholars dominated, it's possible that he has some access into theories about the Land of Mists. In Legacy of the Blood, a growing number of Dementlieu born D'honaires are showing an immunity to his domination powers, which might cause him to consult with his Obedients, which might then lead him to learn more about the DP's.

5) Mistmaster's suggstion about Alfred's connection of the DPs to the Wolf God seems right on, as it's stated that he sees the expansion of his domain after the Grand Conjunction as a sign of the Wolf God's approval.

It's hard to say how Meredoth would view his situation. Mystara/the Known World and basic D&D didn't have the strong planar connection that the A&D born worlds did, so devils, demons, etc. didn't have as big of a presence. And gods weren't as much of a thing but instead were the immortals. So if I were looking to a figure I might pick one of the Immortals. However, Meredoth is so self-absorbed he may not care what is responsible for his imprisonment.

10) Tristen ApBlanc- Gaz I states that Tristen has two primary goals that might alleviate his curse:
a) eliminating Rual's ghost (whom originally put the curse on him)
b) destroying all influence of the druidic gods upon the land
These two factors seem to indicate Tristen's understanding of his predicament as a factor of Rual's curse enforced by the druidic gods.

The Lesser Evil wrote:Strahd seems to refer to the Dark Powers collectively as "Death", after the entity he made his dark pact with. I doubt he would think of them as yugoloth lords as in the Grand Conjunction modules it's revealed he made his first pact with the arcanaloth Inajira and the latter doesn't seem to acknowledge any connection to the Dark Powers. It also wouldn't necessarily make sense to make a deal with a Yugoloth entity to escape the contract of another one.

As for the others

2) I can see Easan blaming Iuz or his abyssal progenitors when he's in his more lucid phases. However, it seems to be stated that he's lost some degree of memory over why he performs his research, so it's possible that he's lost enough memories of the past to make the connection. Easan may be so entranced by his blasphemous work that he may not take a lot of time to consider the nature of the Dark Powers.

3) I think in one of the BoS articles it says that the leader of the Neutral branch of the Church of Ezra is one of the Obedient. If Dominque has her or other scholars dominated, it's possible that he has some access into theories about the Land of Mists. In Legacy of the Blood, a growing number of Dementlieu born D'honaires are showing an immunity to his domination powers, which might cause him to consult with his Obedients, which might then lead him to learn more about the DP's.

5) Mistmaster's suggstion about Alfred's connection of the DPs to the Wolf God seems right on, as it's stated that he sees the expansion of his domain after the Grand Conjunction as a sign of the Wolf God's approval.

It's hard to say how Meredoth would view his situation. Mystara/the Known World and basic D&D didn't have the strong planar connection that the A&D born worlds did, so devils, demons, etc. didn't have as big of a presence. And gods weren't as much of a thing but instead were the immortals. So if I were looking to a figure I might pick one of the Immortals. However, Meredoth is so self-absorbed he may not care what is responsible for his imprisonment.

10) Tristen ApBlanc- Gaz I states that Tristen has two primary goals that might alleviate his curse:
a) eliminating Rual's ghost (whom originally put the curse on him)
b) destroying all influence of the druidic gods upon the land
These two factors seem to indicate Tristen's understanding of his predicament as a factor of Rual's curse enforced by the druidic gods.

With Strahd I can see it either way. He could see them as the "Grim Reaper" or he could see them as very high up Yugoloths. My idea is that he thinks that Inajira being trapped with him is a ruse by the Yugoloth Lords to punish him and the whole demiplane is actually part of Hades.

2) Although possible it doesn't apply here. If the DPs are playing with him, which is the point of the thread, he will be lucid enough from time to time to remember what happened earlier.

6) Again the DPs make sure it is important to him one way or another.

Mistmaster wrote: 4)Gabrielle Aidaire
She would tie it to the Gentleman Caller.

Disagree with this one: Gabby Aderre is well-versed in Vistani lore, so her knowledge of the Dark Powers more likely reflects the Vistani cultural perception of them rather than any sort of personal experience (this applies to Inza, Madame Radanavich, and non-dark lord Vistani such as Madame Eva as well).

More thoughts on Hazlik: it seems like he connects his punishment with being unable to strike at his enemies in Faerun, hence why he has two plots going:1) to strike at every Mulan in or out of the Demiplane of Dread with his transplanar genocide scheme and 2) teaching wizards in the hope one of his apprentices will escape the Demiplane and avenge him.

From the time he escaped back to Faerun during the Grand Conjunction, Hazlik seems to recognize he himself will never escape the Demiplane to see his wrath fully fulfilled. Therefore, that seems to imply some recognition his imprisonment is due to some higher power. It's also possible Hazlik might connect his imprisonment to the creatures that torment him in his dreams (which has been implied to be Hypnos of the Nightmare Court).

The Lesser Evil wrote:More thoughts on Hazlik: it seems like he connects his punishment with being unable to strike at his enemies in Faerun, hence why he has two plots going:1) to strike at every Mulan in or out of the Demiplane of Dread with his transplanar genocide scheme and 2) teaching wizards in the hope one of his apprentices will escape the Demiplane and avenge him.

From the time he escaped back to Faerun during the Grand Conjunction, Hazlik seems to recognize he himself will never escape the Demiplane to see his wrath fully fulfilled. Therefore, that seems to imply some recognition his imprisonment is due to some higher power. It's also possible Hazlik might connect his imprisonment to the creatures that torment him in his dreams (which has been implied to be Hypnos of the Nightmare Court).

So he could see the Nightmare Court as the "Ultimate Dark Powers" of Ravenloft?

Which darklord would be likeliest to consider the possibility that no 'dark powers' exist (as persons/entities) and the Mists and the Land are mutable and psychically reactive? Mordenheim? Lord Godefroy?

EDIT D'Honaire actually seems fairly likely, now that I think more on the question.

brilliantlight wrote: So he could see the Nightmare Court as the "Ultimate Dark Powers" of Ravenloft?

That seems to be a fairly valid conclusion.

ewancummins wrote:Which darklord would be likeliest to consider the possibility that no 'dark powers' exist (as persons/entities) and the Mists and the Land are mutable and psychically reactive? Mordenheim? Lord Godefroy?

EDIT D'Honaire actually seems fairly likely, now that I think more on the question.

That seems to fit with Dr. Mordenheim's atheist creed and could certainly be possible for D'Honaire. Godefroy could go either way; his curse seems to reflect a very personal sort of hell like he's being punished by somebody. However, at the same time he could also pin Mordent's situation on the Alchemist.

Since gods don't exist on Athas, Thakok-An could be another candidate for this line of thinking (perhaps seeing becoming a darklord the result of a failed ascension ritual for her master.)

ewancummins wrote: D'Honaire actually seems fairly likely, now that I think more on the question.

I can imagine D'Honaire believing it, with a D'Honaire style twist. D'Honaire using one of his obedients as a sounding board: "See my fingers. I held up 4 fingers, and you saw 5 fingers because that is what I wanted you to see. Imagine this on a mass scale. Millions of people subject to hypnosis, their very perceptions of objective reality rendered subjective. This is the situation that we are in now, I believe, and I am subject to it also - not quite as much as you, my dear, of course. Through my own efforts I have been able to remove some of truth's protective layers. In time I will be able to see, and thus manipulate, the very stuff of reality itself".

Cool take on D'Honaire, dude.

The fevre dream and the Mesmerist...

RE the others dudes:

Hazlik
Doesn't he blame the Red Wizards who humiliated him? He may believe the demiplane is a prison constructed by a faction of Red Wizards working in concert. That may be his motivation in trying to kill off all the Mulan in Thay even as he remains trapped in Ravenloft; he can't reliably track down and kill his personal enemies across the planar barrier and he's not even sure about the identity of every single one of them, but genocide should do the trick. Is this already canon?

This belief wouldn't be incompatible with a focus on the Nightmare Court if Hazlik thinks the NC are allies or powerful servitors of the Red Wizards whom he believes imprisoned/exiled him.