Café de Nuit

Thar is on the mystara univers for the first edition.

But for the project of WW, i can only say : wait and see...

Don Fernando wrote:One thing is for sure, the quality of the product will be superior... I was missing quality in RL products.
Let's just hope it's not a one-shot project only and that WotC has future plans for RL.

If, by saying "quality", you mean quality in editing, pictures (Not ALL the pictures... Talon, Pozas and others ALWAYS did an excellent job... But I always think about the picture of the boat in Gaz V...) and layout, I can agree.

But really, you'd call "low quality" the Gazetteers? I think the Gaz line was better than ANYTHING WotC EVER did for D&D.

What I really fear is a "uber-powered" Ravenloft... Since WotC products seem to be made for 14 years old boys (as the already mentioned Heroes of B-Series Horror Movie ), I fear we'll start seeing epic level charachter and high magic in the Demiplane...
But maybe I'm just pessimistic. All I'd want is to see WotC CONTINUE the work WW/Arthaus started, but with the aforementioned "quality".

PS: I don't think "quality" is measured in sparkling colors and fancy cover. I think the WW did an excellent work on the line.
...
With the exception of Champions of Darkness, I mean.

alhoon wrote:If you count these, then perhaps Spine of the world in FR could count too. However countless orc and goblin tribes squabbling with each other without any real conection doesn't count for a nation.

Sorry but more than half the "nations" I listed are organized. Perhaps not on the same level as - say, Cormyr - but organized nonetheless (which for lawless humanoids is already a minor miracle)

alhoon wrote:PS Thar? What is that? I don't know it and I used to play FR from time to time.

That's the territory held by Ogres east of Phlan. It was described as the remnant of a once-might humanoid nation. I kind of liked the way they hunted "landsharks"

Jakob wrote:

Don Fernando wrote:One thing is for sure, the quality of the product will be superior... I was missing quality in RL products.
Let's just hope it's not a one-shot project only and that WotC has future plans for RL.

If, by saying "quality", you mean quality in editing, pictures (Not ALL the pictures... Talon, Pozas and others ALWAYS did an excellent job... But I always think about the picture of the boat in Gaz V...) and layout, I can agree.

Yes I meant that exactly, the maps included in the Gaz series are terrible, editing was in many cases unheard of and the layout was not of my liking.

I think the material per se, is great, no complaints about that. But if you compare a book like, say, The Manual of the Planes vs. Ravenloft PH which can be in the same price range, you start wondering if the quality of these books is really the same.

What do we know about the two authors? Were they involved in Ravenloft products in the past? How about the products they wrote for 3.5ed?

As for Bruce Cordell, I don't know for sure, but James Wyatt is a RL fan.
He not only wrote Heroes of Horror, but I recall he wrote some amateur articles for the Kargatane back in the days of good ol' 2e... I recall him contributing the *Haunted Sites* netbook... (If that's the same person...)

Don Fernando wrote:the maps included in the Gaz series are terrible

You have a point. The worst one was the Shadow Rift map: I almost felt offended. ^_^

Anyway, anyone asked on the WotC Boards?

Charney wrote:What do we know about the two authors? Were they involved in Ravenloft products in the past? How about the products they wrote for 3.5ed?

Bruce Cordell has been involved in a ton of stuff for 3.0 and 3.5, probably most notably the Psionics Handbook and Expanded Psionics Handbook, but also Manual of the Planes and lots of other stuff. A quick check of Amazon only brings up one past Ravenloft-related product, and that's Die Vecna Die!, so I'll leave it to you guys to decide if that's a good sign or a bad sign. And James Wyatt is, as noted, a known Ravenloft fan. Personally, I think WotC could do a lot worse than putting those two on the book, so I have fairly high hopes for it at this point.

MatthiasStormcrow wrote:Bruce Cordell has been involved in a ton of stuff for 3.0 and 3.5, probably most notably the Psionics Handbook and Expanded Psionics Handbook, but also Manual of the Planes and lots of other stuff. A quick check of Amazon only brings up one past Ravenloft-related product, and that's Die Vecna Die!

Humm i detect a high magic tendency that augment a little my fear. Im unsure if someone who has experience designing high-lvl spells would be the perfect choice for house of strahd.

Humm i detect a high magic tendency that augment a little my fear. Im unsure if someone who has experience designing high-lvl spells would be the perfect choice for house of strahd.

If so, I personally won't see a problem if somehow they patterned this new product with the rules found in Heroes of Horror. Let me play Malocchio's advocate: yes, it is a Wizards product that could mostly tie in with other high-magic D&D products (Eberron, FRealms, Temple of Elemental Evil, etc.), and yes I expect Castle Ravenloft to be of higher power other than what we expect from Ravenloft.

I'm keeping an open mind. It may come out more high-powered/high-fantasy-structured than we all RL fans expected, but I'm willing to embrace this new high-powered incarnation of Wizards Ravenloft as long as the Gothic mystique is retained.

Scipion_Emilien wrote: Humm i detect a high magic tendency that augment a little my fear. Im unsure if someone who has experience designing high-lvl spells would be the perfect choice for house of strahd.

I suppose you won't like it when I mention he co-authored the Epic Level Handbook, then, will you?

I dunno. I don't see why someone writing some "high magic" stuff makes them automatically unqualified/unable to write "low magic" stuff. Judge authors by whether or not you thought the stuff they wrote was *good*, and if you think it was, have a little faith in their ability to understand and write for a specific setting. After all, nobody around here ever seems to argue the reverse - that Rucht or Steve Miller or somebody would be totally incapable of writing a decent Forgotten Realms book just because they wrote lots of Ravenloft in the past - so why should it only work one way?

Yes I meant that exactly, the maps included in the Gaz series are terrible, editing was in many cases unheard of and the layout was not of my liking.

I think the material per se, is great, no complaints about that. But if you compare a book like, say, The Manual of the Planes vs. Ravenloft PH which can be in the same price range, you start wondering if the quality of these books is really the same.

Ok, when you get down to it, sure, there are some errors. But frankly, I'll take high quality content over 'high quality' spelling, editing, or layout any day. I'd more argue that a lot of WOTC's more recent products have been garbage, albeit well laid out garbage.

Its sort of like trying to find a good shop in a ciy (especially toronto, if you've ever been). The pretty, 'well laid out' stores sell crap in a basket, with prices that make your wallet hurt. It's the back alley places you think you'll get mugged in that have the best stores. I'm sure Scs knows what I'm talking about (*cough*Queen Street*cough*).

What turned me over to RL from FR is the quality of the products, and the room it leaves for creativity. Not to mention, the NPCs are rivaled by none.

Undead Cabbage wrote:

Yes I meant that exactly, the maps included in the Gaz series are terrible, editing was in many cases unheard of and the layout was not of my liking.

I think the material per se, is great, no complaints about that. But if you compare a book like, say, The Manual of the Planes vs. Ravenloft PH which can be in the same price range, you start wondering if the quality of these books is really the same.

Ok, when you get down to it, sure, there are some errors. But frankly, I'll take high quality content over 'high quality' spelling, editing, or layout any day. I'd more argue that a lot of WOTC's more recent products have been garbage, albeit well laid out garbage.

I get your point and I could agree with it. But, wouldn't it be better if editing errors were eliminated? Wouldn't it be better if some nice decent maps were included? Or maybe if the books had a different layout and not one copied out from another book or maybe if the art inside was presented in a better way?

Don't get me wrong, but if the contents are the only thing that matters, then they might as well use ... say a Newspaper format. It will be cheaper for everyone and none will argue about the product's quality.

Don Fernando wrote:...and none will argue about the product's quality.

{laughs hysterically at the notion we gamers could ever quit arguing about products' quality, even if they came error-free and perfect with 3D museum-quality artwork in a gold foil wrapping, for $5 a hardback}

Bruce Cordell was the main author ofReturn to the Tomb of Horrors, which had a very Ravenloft-esque feel, in my opinion. I think his involvement will be a plus.