Café de Nuit

whalejudge wrote:I guess I missed the Gentleman Caller's children subplot. Who were his children in each gazetteer?

http://fraternityofshadows.com/FAQ/FAQ_ ... rschildren

cure wrote: In a related vane, there was to be one child of the Gentleman Caller per Gaz. Would it have been a slightly revised Bonespur, the nightmare riding lackey from Thoughts of Darkness (if that fits the timeline) and, if so, what would the significance of that be?

The last plans were for the Thirteenth Dukkar to be a character who has seen print . . . but whose abilities are generally latent and who is in a situation that would make it tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him.

If the line and the Kargatane's participation had ended at Gaz XIII, it would also have brought some things full circle.

DocBeard wrote:

Can't say I agree. The DP and the limits of darklords are what have kept him alive. If he were an actual threat to them, I suspect that Ivan or Ivana would have had him poisoned or D'Honaire would have sent an Obedient assassin. Drakov's misogynistic enough to have had his soldiers drag Ivana to his tent, with fairly predictable results.

I've gotta question the jump from 'doesn't like women' to 'serial rapist'-and, man, if Drakov wasn't a serious threat, the treaty of the four towers would never have been signed.

On the serial rapist--um, yes, that's what First Night is.

Drakov as presented is no real threat to any Darklord--not personally. Yes, in actual combat he could best Ivan, Ivana, Jacqueline, Dominic, and Jules Weathermay (the idea that Mordent's true lord is a ghost probably wouldn't occur to him) all at once and without much trouble--except that he's imprisoned in Falkovnia. He can, however, do a great deal of damage. I view the treaty more as a morale builder for the populace and a means of limiting the damage he can do more than the result of any great fears of the darklords of Drakov. The Lords of Dementlieu, Borca, and Richemoulot are far more interested in tormenting their populace than in expending their time and energy smacking down Drakov again.

Matthew L. Martin wrote:

cure wrote: In a related vane, there was to be one child of the Gentleman Caller per Gaz. Would it have been a slightly revised Bonespur, the nightmare riding lackey from Thoughts of Darkness (if that fits the timeline) and, if so, what would the significance of that be?

The last plans were for the Thirteenth Dukkar to be a character who has seen print . . . but whose abilities are generally latent and who is in a situation that would make it tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him.

If the line and the Kargatane's participation had ended at Gaz XIII, it would also have brought some things full circle.

Well, S would be difficult to get ahold of, but there would be a gender problem.

Van Ritchen might bring things full circle too and he would be difficult to get ahold of, but it would be far too much to have him be demon and vistani born.

So if Gaz XIII is:

"Staunton Bluffs
Two new domains
Bluetspur

. . . and, if I recall John's comments about the metaplot correctly, a Carnival cameo."

Who fits from there?

Travelling with the Carnival would certainly be a "situation that would make it tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him."

So a Carnie with generally latent abilities huh? Tindal the Barker comes to mind. But that doesn't quite fit. So maybe one of the abominations? Or Madame Fortuna? No. But perhaps one of the skurra?

cure wrote:Van Ritchen might bring things full circle too and he would be difficult to get ahold of, but it would be far too much to have him be demon and vistani born.

Van Richten is surely far too old to be a GC child, too. If anything, he's more likely to have appeared in a grand finale of the VRGs than in the Gaz series, IMO.

Perhaps it's S's child who'd have turned out to be the final GC offspring? S has had very little to say about her husband, and her ghoulish daughter would be pretty hard to contact. Plus, it'd put a new spin on that feeling of "joy and warmth I hadn't felt in a very, very long time" which S had in Gaz V, as well as the familiarity with which the Caller addresses her.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Perhaps it's S's child who'd have turned out to be the final GC offspring? S has had very little to say about her husband, and her ghoulish daughter would be pretty hard to contact. Plus, it'd put a new spin on that feeling of "joy and warmth I hadn't felt in a very, very long time" which S had in Gaz V, as well as the familiarity with which the Caller addresses her.

A very, very clever idea. However, her daughter "has seen print" only in the most superficial of ways, more particularly hasn't been given stats or had her capabilities described, rendering the "generally latent" point moot, and she isn't, as far as we know, transgendered.

cure wrote:

Matthew L. Martin wrote:

cure wrote: In a related vane, there was to be one child of the Gentleman Caller per Gaz. Would it have been a slightly revised Bonespur, the nightmare riding lackey from Thoughts of Darkness (if that fits the timeline) and, if so, what would the significance of that be?

The last plans were for the Thirteenth Dukkar to be a character who has seen print . . . but whose abilities are generally latent and who is in a situation that would make it tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him.

If the line and the Kargatane's participation had ended at Gaz XIII, it would also have brought some things full circle.

Well, S would be difficult to get ahold of, but there would be a gender problem.

Van Ritchen might bring things full circle too and he would be difficult to get ahold of, but it would be far too much to have him be demon and vistani born.

So if Gaz XIII is:

"Staunton Bluffs
Two new domains
Bluetspur

. . . and, if I recall John's comments about the metaplot correctly, a Carnival cameo."

Who fits from there?

The only one that makes any sense to me is Bonespur:

He's half-Vistani
He's got that supernatural tracking ability and can find anyone anywhere, even through the Mists, which seems like it could be something he inherited from the GC.
Forged of Darkness strongly hints that his consciousness has been subsumed by the God-Brain. This would make it pretty difficult for Azalin to get a hold of him.

However, there's a major problem with Bonespur: his mother wasn't a Vistani. If the Gentleman Caller was his father then he wouldn't be a half-Vistani unless there was a retcon done on him (which isn't really a big issue, they did one for Chezna)

Bluebomber4evr wrote:However, there's a major problem with Bonespur: his mother wasn't a Vistani. If the Gentleman Caller was his father then he wouldn't be a half-Vistani unless there was a retcon done on him (which isn't really a big issue, they did one for Chezna)

No problem there. Mallocchio's a quarter-vistani too. Gabby's father was a giorgio (likely Drakov).

No, it's not Bonespur.

The Thirteenth Dukkar's mother has also received a writeup. (So has the targeted mother of the Ultimate Dukkar.)

Matthew L. Martin wrote:No, it's not Bonespur.

The Thirteenth Dukkar's mother has also received a writeup. (So has the targeted mother of the Ultimate Dukkar.)

S has just spent some time with the Gentleman Caller, and we don't know if she's half-vistani or not. So maybe she has a new kid on the way?

Rotipher of the FoS wrote: Van Richten is surely far too old to be a GC child, too. If anything, he's more likely to have appeared in a grand finale of the VRGs than in the Gaz series, IMO.

Perhaps it's S's child who'd have turned out to be the final GC offspring? S has had very little to say about her husband, and her ghoulish daughter would be pretty hard to contact. Plus, it'd put a new spin on that feeling of "joy and warmth I hadn't felt in a very, very long time" which S had in Gaz V, as well as the familiarity with which the Caller addresses her.

Van Richten is too old to be the son of an incubus? Why? I wasn't aware that demons got old that quickly, and as far as I know, precisely how long the Gentleman Caller has been in RL has never been fully established.

Matthew L. Martin wrote:No, it's not Bonespur.

The Thirteenth Dukkar's mother has also received a writeup. (So has the targeted mother of the Ultimate Dukkar.)

Are Dukkars and the Children of the Gentleman Caller synonymous?

And is Hyskosa or Malocchio the ultimate Dukkar? We have a description of Gaby, Malocchio's mother. Hyskosa's?

And more to the point, how many other Vistani and half-Vistani women do we have descriptions of? Madame Eva, Madame Eva's replacement, Madame Radanavich, Madame Magda, Madame Girani. A half-demon son of either Madame Eva or Madame Radanavich would certainly bring things full circle.

PS From the novel To Sleep With Evil, what was the story on the Vistana or Darkling that ultimately impregnates the heroine?

cure wrote:
Are Dukkars and the Children of the Gentleman Caller synonymous?

Dukkar in this context is shorthand for 'Children of the Gentleman Caller,' even if not all of them strictly fit the description. Hyskosa is a Dukkar under the traditional definition, but not a GC-Dukkar as far as I know.

And is Hyskosa or Malocchio the ultimate Dukkar? We have a description of Gaby, Malocchio's mother. Hyskosa's?

The Ultimate Dukkar does not exist yet--although Malocchio's the closest the Caller's gotten. The Thirteenth is not the Ultimate.

Thematically, I'd think that the mother of the Ultimate Dukkar would have to be one of three people; Madame Eva(Hey, she was young at some point, and we know current-Eva is operating on borrowed time until her death in the 400s.), the current or next incarnation of Tatayna(Strahd's tie to the Vistani is pretty powerful, and putting the themes together would be effective.) or Inza(Arguably the most flat out malevolent Vistani-blooded character in Ravenloft. Do we know anything about her father? I find it odd, though not impossible, that such a thoroughly selfish, hateful person could come from a bunch of honest to gosh heroes.)

I mean, it could be someone else I'm missing, but those are the non-undead women who have a heavy connection to the Vistani.