Café de Nuit

Okay I hesitate to wade into this debate as its a looong one, but having not played RL since the pre-requiem days in 2E, Ive just read all the Gaz to catch up, and Im hooked ont he whole meta-plot thing going on. That said Ive got a theory, which might well be the result of too much drink on a friday night and too many x-files episodes watched but here goes....

I remember back in this thread somewhere John Mangrum illustartring the point that S was originally planned as a kind of antithesis to the Twins. Playing on that idea has anyone else noticed a few anti-pararllels betwen the GC children and the darklords of the respective domains they inhabit? I mean obviously each DL is an archetype, so whatIm suggesting is the GC childer in each domain are a reflection isn some way of the DL...

Example: The Beast of the Hills - Kartakass

The beast is monstorous on the outside and lives as if a beast, and appears to be living in a domain where everyones favourite monacled bard is a monster with human form, who yearns for cvilisation....

Example: The Jongleur - Borca

The Jongleur is phsyically hideous and hangs out with Ivanna, who is beautoful and seductive, yet rather nasty on the inside.

Example: Malocchio - Invidia

Malocchio's behaviour is the mirror of gaby's. What she acheives by insinuation and manipulation he achieves by fear and violence.

Example: Viggo Drakov - Falkovnia

Runs the central prison ruthlessely but efficinetly making the best use of the resources (!) he has, which you could argue is a far cry from the way Drakov runs the domain....

Example: Chezna - Nova Vassa

Ok I admit Im struggling here, perhaps Chezna does in the open what Malken does in secret?

I will admit this theory is based on the little info availabel on the GC childrne in the Gaz, BUT it sort of rings bells to me. Shoot me down but its a theory, and did I ever tell you about the grassy knoll.....?

I'll take these in order.

1. Normally it might be. However at some point, it's been more or less understood that the GC is an agent of the Dark Powers. I don't recall exactly which author talked about this but I also remember him mentioning that he wishes they'd never defined the GC as an Incubas. so yeah if GC is an agent of the DP then his knowledge of the demiplane and vistani isn't unreasonable.

2. Again, the whole idea that the GC has a connection to the DP pretty much explains it. Other fiends and celestials don't have that connection. Though interestingly enough Isolode's superiors knew that if you entered the demiplane it would be impossible to leave it.

3. I think this has been answered by others sufficiently well.

4. Absolutely. At least that's what I think. The part that trips up most people is the idea that Ravenloft is excluded from the intervention of the Gods. I think a lot of people (not all) assume that this means that the Dark Powers must be at least at the level of a deity in order to maintain this. There is also the ability to snatch up evil and often powerful individuals from all over the multiverse and stick them in Ravenloft with no escape. And mold the very land to suit the darklord's background make them appropriate to each prisoner. It does seem to imply god like power. However I am of the opinion like you, that the Dark Powers are in fact fallible.

5. It's entirely possible. It even seems to be in the style of Gothic literature. that said I don't think so. It just seems to connect with too much of what we "know" to just be his madness. Just a hunch though honestly

6. Actually this has bothered me as well. Specifically I'm referencing the novel I, Strahd: War Against Azalin. Now I know that a good portion of Azalin's generals and even lower ranking members in the book were supernatural creatures. And that Azalin animated huge numbers of zombies and skeletons, however a portion of his army were humans. What was the point of that if Strahd could just summon the poison mists to wipe out all breathing opponents in the army with just a thought?

Anyway, dig your line of questioning.

over the last few days I have been trying to read and absorb this lengthy thread and a few (possibly stupid) random thoughts popped into my head:

1) isn't the "grand GC" plan theory a little complex for a tanar'ri demon? I'm not a "if your chaotic your stupid" believer but come on, not only would the GC need a lot of knowledge of the demiplane but also knowledge of the Vistani? Maybe he is just going after vistani women for his brood cause there is somethign about them that tweaks his abyssal blood? A grand plot as some has described is a much more like a baatezu devil kind of plot...

2) the GC is a "succubus" in male form (as until the Savage Tide Dungeon adventure path there was no canon "incubus" tanar'ri and if you read that one, the GC is not an incubus) and a lesser tanar'ri…how did he get such knowledge on the run from the eladrin? And why to much greater and intelligent fiends that have studied the demiplane have not clued into the "GC brood vs the DP" thing?

3) If a reality ripple is that powerful to break a darklord's prison then why can't a fiend just teleport/planeshift out of the demiplane?

4) Is everyone assuming the DP are omniscient? Even the primal powers of the whole great wheel (or equivalent) are not all knowing...can't the DP make mistakes?

5) It seems to me everyone thinks Azalin came back from the void (or where ever his psyche was) with all his bells intact…maybe the purpose/results of his whole plan and "S"'s mission is one big delusion of his?

6) how does a real inter-domain war work when the Darklords can close their borders? Does closing a border also keep people out? And as for Borca how would the Falk/Invid alliance survive when their water is turned to poison? Would it have to be a 1 day assult where no one drinks in their time in Borca?