Café de Nuit

Something just occurred to me.

Roti, you might also want to post just what each *chapter* should contain, i.e., what you should write about a monster, in descending order of importance. What should the subsections be?

Guys, for the stats side check out the incredible World of Sulerin Monster index. While i don't think it includes the 3E Ravenloft Monster books it does include most other 1E, 2E and 3E sources. So you don't have to reinvent the wheel for every featured creature or if you have to ivent them you can base them of the right old sources.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Dragon eel/sea drake: Yes, people say dragons don't fit Ravenloft. But these guys might, as they're pretty classic "sea serpent" archetypes.

Speakingof Dragons maybe you could convinvce DwarfPcfan from the WotC boards to submit his Merlarihum, the oceanic scourge (Adult crested Sea Serpent) (in the 12th post).

Also will Ravenloft's own Nessie be featured?

I am going to make a dreadful pig of myself and ask for:

Sea Spawn, Aboleth, Kraken, Morkoth, Kopru.

My reasons for asking for this section are clear to Rotipher and will become clear to everyone else.

Since these are the critters which are likely to have human/humanoid puppets or slaves, and since my other submission also falls into that category, I think these form a natural category.

Is it all right if I speak for such a big chunk of the book, Roti? If it is, it may be most reasonable for me to act as a sub-editor for this part, rather than writing all of it myself, so if you really want one or more of these critters let's talk.

Nathan of the FoS wrote:I am going to make a dreadful pig of myself and ask for:

Sea Spawn, Aboleth, Kraken, Morkoth, Kopru.

My reasons for asking for this section are clear to Rotipher and will become clear to everyone else.

Since these are the critters which are likely to have human/humanoid puppets or slaves, and since my other submission also falls into that category, I think these form a natural category.

Is it all right if I speak for such a big chunk of the book, Roti? If it is, it may be most reasonable for me to act as a sub-editor for this part, rather than writing all of it myself, so if you really want one or more of these critters let's talk.

I already called sea spawn, but I'm willing to share.

DeepShadow wrote:I already called sea spawn, but I'm willing to share.

You did?...

Er...where?

Not that it matters. Sea spawn are actually the monster on that list that are least pertinent to my Ulterior Motives, so if you wanna take point writing it, I'll co-ordinate it with the rest of the section.

I've modified the Master List to reflect these latest claims, Roti.

From the first page:

DeepShadow wrote:Ah, okay!

First off, I'd love to recycle some of my Saragoss material. That's one domain that is practically designed to "leak" bits of itself into the other seas. Certain native plants such as sea-mire are known to break off and float rotting through the misty borders. Not to mention the fact that the sahuagin in Saragoss are too crowded in those shallow seas, so there should be a decent amount of rogues and explorers.

In other areas, I think I could offer something to the sea spawn.


In the interests of laying out all the work, I'll kick off a list of things that I could see in such a work, in random order. Note that I am not laying claim to any of these:

Reavers
Remnants
Jolly Rogers
Wererays
Sea stalkers
Weresharks
Kelpies
Those undead mermaid things from Death Undaunted.

On second thought, I WILL lay claim to kelpies. They are only mentioned in Saragoss AFAIK, and they are the most obvious candidates for escaping in a patch of sea-mire. OTOH, I don't have their stats in 3.5, so I'm definitely interested in sharing them with someone else.

Hey - as a real life marine biologist (and professor of marine mammal biology) I love this idea.

I'm happy to help out with the biology (write ups for marine species in the monster manual suck and are, typically, biologically incorrect)

I love the idea of a great (wight) whale, a la Moby Dick. I'll also volunteer a side-bar on life on a whaling/sealing boat

Could there be a section on real marine fauna?

Re: lycanthropes
There's a lot of folklore in the Pacific Northwest on orcas (killer whales) - so the idea of a were-orca could fit into this. Were-polar bears would be neat too... (technically marine mammals and v. good swimmers). Leopard seals are probably the 'meanest' of all marine mammals, so they'd definitely be a good model for sea stalkers, despite them being Antarctic. And I love the idea of dread selkies. There's lots of Scottish folklore that could be mined for. Were (moray) eels?

One of my students says I should propose were-manatees. The least scary of the lycanthropes - more likely to be eaten than eat something else. Certainly a mantee would be a good animal species to find in Sargassos.

I'd like to float the idea of aquatic vampire variants (turning into rays/sharks/squid) & evil lovecraftian merfolk (tentacles below the waist).

Considering the role of lighthouses in nautical horror - perhaps a little section on these. The main reason lighthouses have such a bad rep., is that their lights typically used to float on a pool of mercury (in the 17/1800s) and this (plus the isolation) led to high rates of 'madness' in light house keepers.

Useable submarines and diving suits started to be developed in the real world time period depicted in Ravenloft. In an equipment section there could be rules for Dementlieu/Lamoria submarines, diving suits.

Must stop now, because I've got to head off to a conference on whales in New Englamd...

DeepShadow wrote:From the first page:

DeepShadow wrote: In other areas, I think I could offer something to the sea spawn.

So noted. Off we go, then.

Nathan of the FoS wrote:Since these are the critters which are likely to have human/humanoid puppets or slaves, and since my other submission also falls into that category, I think these form a natural category.

Is it all right if I speak for such a big chunk of the book, Roti? If it is, it may be most reasonable for me to act as a sub-editor for this part, rather than writing all of it myself, so if you really want one or more of these critters let's talk.

That's an awfully big meal there, Nathan. Don't you know that other kids are starving in Falkovnia?

Seriously, I agree that kopru and morkoth are a natural match with your new oogey-boogey. The kraken and its soul-kraken cousin probably rate their own chapter, though, partly because they're classic sea monsters, and partly because their weather-control abilities and sheer brute-force power make them a threat of a different caliber. They don't sneak around in the murk, deviously waiting to strike, they just barge straight in and tear your ship to pieces under you. Monsters like that may be better depicted as a hostile force of nature than as a mastermind, IMHO.

Likewise, aboleth are probably better saved for a more Lovecraft-flavored aberration book, although a sidebar would be all right. Also, they're a bit too organized and shrewd to fit in with the snaggle-toothed, ravening beasts this netbook will focus on ... and we may discover we need them for a future Gaz's seas! So let's not nail down too many details about Ravenloft's aboleth, just yet.

Tell you what: if nobody else picks the kraken/soul-kraken or the aboleth, they're all yours, Nathan. Otherwise, leave some room for dessert.

I would like to claim the Jolly Roger.

And let me add a thought about sharks: skeletal sharks, aside from museum pieces which would be creepy indeed, don't make a lot of sense as their movement rate would be pitiful; whereas shadow sharks (which could swim right through the side of a ship), wight sharks (which could move normally), and spectral/ghost sharks (although there might be an insurmountable charisma requirement) would be quite workable.

cure wrote:I would like to claim the Jolly Roger.

And let me add a thought about sharks: skeletal sharks, aside from museum pieces which would be creepy indeed, don't make a lot of sense as their movement rate would be pitiful; whereas shadow sharks (which could swim right through the side of a ship), wight sharks (which could move normally), and spectral/ghost sharks (although there might be an insurmountable charisma requirement) would be quite workable.

Not to mention sharks have cartilage instead of proper skeletons. Would you even be able to make one?

If NeoTiamat or anyone else doesn't want them (and if someone could find the QtR article on them for me) I could write a little something on dread selkies - they probably wouldn't be exceptionally dreadful but what they hey. They would probably be lumped with seawolves in the netbook; right now the two seem amazingly easy to mistake for each other.

Nathan of the FoS wrote:I am going to make a dreadful pig of myself and ask for:

Sea Spawn, Aboleth, Kraken, Morkoth, Kopru.

My reasons for asking for this section are clear to Rotipher and will become clear to everyone else.

A fiendish pig indeed!

I'd like to explore the fun world of dread octopuses, and related critters, if I may?

Joël

cure wrote:I would like to claim the Jolly Roger.

Done!

And let me add a thought about sharks: skeletal sharks, aside from museum pieces which would be creepy indeed, don't make a lot of sense as their movement rate would be pitiful; whereas shadow sharks (which could swim right through the side of a ship), wight sharks (which could move normally), and spectral/ghost sharks (although there might be an insurmountable charisma requirement) would be quite workable.

Perhaps they don't need any flesh or skin to push their way through the water, much like skeletons don't need eyes to see? The MM doesn't deny skeletons a swim speed, only nonmagical flight. Necromantic energy might make up for a skeletal shark's lack of bulk when swimming, much like it makes up for the lack of mass in a sword-swinging skeleton's arms.

(See, this is the sort of quandry this netbook can help DMs resolve! )

The thought of incorporeal sharks swimming freely through a ship's hull is very creepy, BTW. We gotta use that image!

Isabella wrote:Not to mention sharks have cartilage instead of proper skeletons. Would you even be able to make one?

According to the MM, yes. The skeleton template only requires that the base creature has a "skeletal system", not that it be made out of bone.

Moreover, there actually are skeletal sharks in Ship of Horrors, possibly some of Meredoth's stray pets. The artwork depicts them as frameworks of cartilage, but posed to swim like real sharks ... which is a bit eerie to look at, as cure says.

I could write a little something on dread selkies - they probably wouldn't be exceptionally dreadful but what they hey. They would probably be lumped with seawolves in the netbook; right now the two seem amazingly easy to mistake for each other.

I'll see if I can find the reference. If I can't, we could either modify the Fiend Folio selkie, or write it up from scratch to reflect the darker side of IRL selkie legends. Either way, I'll put you down for them, Isabella!