Café de Nuit

If I were pursuing that option, FWIW, I'd probably go with: "In becoming a demilich, Azalin abruptly realizes that the material world and all of its ephemeral trappings -- rulership and fatherhood included -- are so far beneath him that he no longer cares in the slightest about forcing Irik to conform to his own tyrannical standards. Thus, while still a villain, he no longer merits darklordship, having lost the bitterness and dramatic pathos that originally made him suitable for such a role."

That sort of makes sense, too. From a character viewpoint, Azalin wanted Irik to be an effective ruler for the good of Knurl. This is a laudable goal. However, he did so by being a tyrannical and cruel father - this is a not so laudable ends.

Azalin then sought lichdom when his son died. Again, the motivation here was so that he could live forever and lead Knurl to greatness.

Going onwards to demilichdom would probably require some renunciation of earthly trappings, such as power and responsibility. At that point the Dark Powers would likely lose interest in him as a plaything, much as they did with Soth when he succumbed to despair.

HuManBing wrote:That sort of makes sense, too. From a character viewpoint, Azalin wanted Irik to be an effective ruler for the good of Knurl. This is a laudable goal. However, he did so by being a tyrannical and cruel father - this is a not so laudable ends.

Azalin then sought lichdom when his son died. Again, the motivation here was so that he could live forever and lead Knurl to greatness.

Are you sure? Wasn't it also so that he'd have enough time to research a method to bring his son back to life?

HuManBing wrote:Going onwards to demilichdom would probably require some renunciation of earthly trappings, such as power and responsibility. At that point the Dark Powers would likely lose interest in him as a plaything, much as they did with Soth when he succumbed to despair.

I don't see that, personally. A demilich still cares about power, it just takes it to a new level.
One of the things from 'Lord of the necropolis' that I find very believable of Azalin is that one of the first things he does as a demilich is try to find Irik so he can restore him. Responsibility and a twisted kind of love have been the things that define Azalin for an eternity now. He wouldn't be able to just shrug them off at once, even if he wanted to. He defines himself by those things as well, so to deny them would be tantamount to admitting he'd been wrong for all this time. Can you really see Azalin admitting he's wrong about anything?

As for Soth ... The Dark Powers usually don't stop kicking their toys just because they've fallen down and they won't even try to get up anymore, they just try to find ways to make them want to get up, then kick them down harder. Soth's loss of interest may have weakened the bonds between himself and Sithicus, but it took the power of the curse laid by his wife, which was a relatively more just punishment, to free him from the Realm of Dread.

Exactly. In order to become detached enough to seek demilichdom, Azalin would have to confront and, one way or another, get some closure on the whole Irik bit.

Which is, really, why I like the whole additional curse of having to deal with Irik's ghost/geist: Becides the pain of having a 'conscience', it's giving Azalin his own Tatanya, as it were, to constantly remind him of his own failings as a father and ruler-the one memory Azalin cannot change or whipe away.

Rock wrote:

HuManBing wrote:That sort of makes sense, too. From a character viewpoint, Azalin wanted Irik to be an effective ruler for the good of Knurl. This is a laudable goal. However, he did so by being a tyrannical and cruel father - this is a not so laudable ends.

Azalin then sought lichdom when his son died. Again, the motivation here was so that he could live forever and lead Knurl to greatness.

Are you sure? Wasn't it also so that he'd have enough time to research a method to bring his son back to life?

This runs into issues of motivation, which I'll admit are tricky. Greyhawk is a magic rich campaign setting, so you'd have thought that a cleric with Resurrection really wouldn't be too hard to find.

At best, I'd be tempted to cast Azalin as somebody who tolerates Irik's ghost and wants to bring him back more as a question of honor than necessarily of attachment to Irik. After how many centuries of lichdom, the original purpose of Irik has long been superseded by Azalin's own immortality. Azalin probably views Irik as a grievous mistake and an insult to his own pride in how he wants to do things. Perhaps he views it as a childish error that is glaring, and which deserves to be put right before he can ever truly be the logically brilliant ruler he believes himself to be.

(By the way, in King of the Dead, when Firan scries on Olessa and thinks to himself how he's going to bend her to his will, I couldn't stop thinking "You fool! You clearly have no idea how women really think and behave, if you think they'll pay any attention to their husbands!" )

Rock wrote:

HuManBing wrote:Going onwards to demilichdom would probably require some renunciation of earthly trappings, such as power and responsibility. At that point the Dark Powers would likely lose interest in him as a plaything, much as they did with Soth when he succumbed to despair.

I don't see that, personally. A demilich still cares about power, it just takes it to a new level.

Something from VRGttL mentioned how demiliches are practically unknowable, being far from the hustle and bustle of this plane. Their most treasured artifacts here are abandoned, their most painstakingly researched spells are left to rot as beneath their notice. You don't have to incorporate that into your campaign, of course, but my interpretation specifically sees demiliches as being distant and otherworldly in their powers. Rather like Starchildren from Arthur C. Clark's 2001 books.

Rock wrote:Can you really see Azalin admitting he's wrong about anything?

I agree Azalin might never admit an error to any of his underlings.

However, admitting an error to himself, in private, sure I can imagine that. That's the essence of revising and reviewing your plans to improve yourself. There's a room in Castle Avernus which is under a Silence spell, and Azalin goes there occasionally to confess his sins, according to From the Shadows. Again, you don't have to use this resource if it doesn't fit in with your view of Azalin.

The alternative would be an Azalin who muleheadedly continues in his behavior and rarely if ever adapts his theories to suit the facts, which would not accurately portray his genius intelligence, in my opinion. In fact, it comes dangerously close to describing Vlad Drakov...