Café de Nuit

Greed for more stuff might not apply for them so well, but extreme possessiveness about their own stuff is what most Ancient Dead are all about. Since the undead don't require much (if any) personal property, they embody the definition of greed as "desire for more than you need", simply by wanting to hang on to the existing grave-goods which they have no use for. They're misers, to a point where even death won't stop them from clinging to what's theirs.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Greed for more stuff might not apply for them so well, but extreme possessiveness about their own stuff is what most Ancient Dead are all about. Since the undead don't require much (if any) personal property, they embody the definition of greed as "desire for more than you need", simply by wanting to hang on to the existing grave-goods which they have no use for. They're misers, to a point where even death won't stop them from clinging to what's theirs.

"They said "You can't take it with you"...so I stayed."

Greed for more stuff might not apply for them so well, but extreme possessiveness about their own stuff is what most Ancient Dead are all about. Since the undead don't require much (if any) personal property, they embody the definition of greed as "desire for more than you need", simply by wanting to hang on to the existing grave-goods which they have no use for. They're misers, to a point where even death won't stop them from clinging to what's theirs.

Now I'm slightly confused. I was under the impression that Gluttony was taking more than one needed while other needed it more, whereas Greed was obsession with a certain commodity.

For instance, a petty thug that only thought about money, whether he was incredibly wealthy or poor, is considered greedy. Whereas a nobleman that ate more than he needed to survive, while others starved, is considered Gluttonous. I was also under the impression that Greed need not be money, and Gluttony need not be food. For example, one could instead be Greedy for power. Al Gore would argue that Western Society is Gluttonous about power usage.

The Ancient Dead struck me as being more of the epitome of Sloth, especially what with the way Ankhtepot spends most of his time slumbering within his tomb, dreaming of his glory days being alive, and being the Pharoah.

Sloth only counts as a meaningful flaw when it has negative consequences for other people. Soth's and Anhktepot's subjects are actually thankful their rulers aren't more active than they are, or so it seems to me.

To be truly despicable, slothful behavior should involve forcing others to carry your bulk. Among monsters, I'd pick the Illithid, the Zombie Lord, the Rakshasa, the Paka and other "manipulators" as having the most potential for adventures with a strong Sloth theme. A great way to emphasis it is to have the monster once having been a human, whose neglectful behavior attracted a curse of some kind.

Igor the Henchman wrote:Sloth only counts as a meaningful flaw when it has negative consequences for other people. Soth's and Anhktepot's subjects are actually thankful their rulers aren't more active than they are, or so it seems to me.

To be truly despicable, slothful behavior should involve forcing others to carry your bulk. Among monsters, I'd pick the Illithid, the Zombie Lord, the Rakshasa, the Paka and other "manipulators" as having the most potential for adventures with a strong Sloth theme. A great way to emphasis it is to have the monster once having been a human, whose neglectful behavior attracted a curse of some kind.

The Illithids of Bluetspur are devoted to creating a superior slave race to do all the work for them. If that is not Sloth, then I do not know what is.

Undead Cabbage wrote:Now I'm slightly confused. I was under the impression that Gluttony was taking more than one needed while other needed it more, whereas Greed was obsession with a certain commodity.

Gluttony, IMO, is about using up more than you need, for your own overindulgence. This distinguishes it from Greed, which is about clinging to things permanently: you don't just take more than you need, you take it and hoard it. A person who makes tons of money but spends it just as quickly on his or her own pleasure is more Gluttonous (or perhaps Lustful) than Greedy.

Now that I think of it, Vladislav Mircea might qualify as a Sloth-themed villain. Dealing with a plague crisis by throwing one's guests out to die is a far easier solution than trying to do something about it. Especially while there's still wine left.

I have a feeling that this isn't D&D cannon per se, but I remember the wraiths in an old computer game (Quest for Glory 4) were the epitomy of greed. They were the spirits of misers who clung to life because they were too greedy to leave their treasures behind.

Supposedly most undead creatures hate the living for... being alive, so they may also be envy.

Isabella wrote:I have a feeling that this isn't D&D cannon per se, but I remember the wraiths in an old computer game (Quest for Glory 4) were the epitomy of greed. They were the spirits of misers who clung to life because they were too greedy to leave their treasures behind.

You're right; the Quest for Glory games have nothing to do with DnD, but that is the backstory given to the four wraiths of Shadows of Darkness.

And I think Rotipher has it right - gluttony centers around consumption. It's not about taking or wanting stuff, and said stuff doesn't even have to have value; it's about obsessively indulging in it. Someone who downs mug after mug of cheap watered-down beer may not be depriving anyone else of their daily nutritional intake (and depending on how much it's watered down, there may be plenty to spare), but (s)he's still a glutton.