Café de Nuit

My sense is the designer's thought process behind the Grand Disjunction*, was to have each now fully-stand-alone domain make its own sort of internal logical sense without its neighbors necessarily contradicting its very existence.

Sort of like when Gehenna, Bluetspur, and the Nightmare Lands became Islands of Terror instead of domains of the Core — and of course, Markovia, which became a literal island in the Sea of Sorrows — after the GC.

Each of those moves made a certain amount of sense when the designers were trying to describe a cohesive continent that had developed inter-domain trade, travel, and diplomatic relations.

Those domains were all neat, and each one filled a certain niche of the setting. They just didn't necessarily work as well when placed next to civilized neighbors.

My sense is that the same sort of thing is going on here. By saying that each domain is an island unto itself ... the designers now didn't have to worry about the plot holes/inconsistencies that would be caused when one land was an apocalyptic wasteland ... while its next door neighbor was a renaissance marvel.

* Disjunction isn't really the opposite of Conjunction ... but I sort of feel like blowing up the continent needs a snazzy name. I'll leave it to the esteemed scholars of the FoS to come up with something more fitting.

[And I'm really looking forward to the FoS take on piecing these islands back into a cohesive Core]

Mephisto wrote:Am I really the only one here who likes Urik Von Kharkov as a villain?I personally thought the panther story really creative. I still remember the first time I read about him decades ago, I was estranged and intrigued at the same time.

For me, it always struck me as one complication too many. Panther turned into a man, fighting his animal urges, but giving into them, cool. But then why also is he a vampire? It just seemed tacked on, and we already have plenty of vampires. Just leave him as a were-panther, was my original thought, especially if giving him werepanther servants. That said, I did like what was done with him in the Dungeon adventures and the Gaz. He just doesn't really click for me because of the overcomplicated backstory.

Wolfglide wrote:I am partial to any cat-related darklord, including Urik von Kharkov. I do enjoy the uniqueness of his background, being created from a panther as part of a revenge plot. Honestly, it makes me pity him for being used by that wizard.

I am more of a dog person I prefer Inajira than Arijani and really like Ste. Ronges s a city...

Mephisto wrote:

Wolfglide wrote:I am partial to any cat-related darklord, including Urik von Kharkov. I do enjoy the uniqueness of his background, being created from a panther as part of a revenge plot. Honestly, it makes me pity him for being used by that wizard.

I am more of a dog person I prefer Inajira than Arijani and really like Ste. Ronges s a city...

On a technical level, I like Inajira better than the base arcanoloth in Monster Manual II. There are so many creatures that cast spells like sorcerers, that it makes for an interesting spin to have a creature whose nature gives it a wizard's spellbook. When I made an arcanaloth villain for a game, I cannibalized bits from Inajira for this reason.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Mephisto wrote:Am I really the only one here who likes Urik Von Kharkov as a villain?I personally thought the panther story really creative. I still remember the first time I read about him decades ago, I was estranged and intrigued at the same time.

For me, it always struck me as one complication too many. Panther turned into a man, fighting his animal urges, but giving into them, cool. But then why also is he a vampire? It just seemed tacked on, and we already have plenty of vampires. Just leave him as a were-panther, was my original thought, especially if giving him werepanther servants. That said, I did like what was done with him in the Dungeon adventures and the Gaz. He just doesn't really click for me because of the overcomplicated backstory.

That I can't disagree with. Making him a vampire and tying him in to Azalin isn't fully necessary. Still, taken by itself, the idea of a vampire were-panther sounds incredibly cool. Of course, if you want a vampire that turns into a giant cat, you already have the chiang-shi with its tiger form.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Mephisto wrote:Am I really the only one here who likes Urik Von Kharkov as a villain?I personally thought the panther story really creative. I still remember the first time I read about him decades ago, I was estranged and intrigued at the same time.

For me, it always struck me as one complication too many. Panther turned into a man, fighting his animal urges, but giving into them, cool. But then why also is he a vampire? It just seemed tacked on, and we already have plenty of vampires. Just leave him as a were-panther, was my original thought, especially if giving him werepanther servants. That said, I did like what was done with him in the Dungeon adventures and the Gaz. He just doesn't really click for me because of the overcomplicated backstory.

I remember being in a thread some years back where the idea of using Von Kharkov's various aspects against each other, sort of like split personalities, was a part of the discussion. I liked where it all seemed to be going because I initially never liked the too-many-monsters-in-one aspect of him either. I don't remember if any actual progress was made beyond that, or if any of it was useful to or accepted by anyone else though.

I'll try to see if I can't find the thread. Maybe somebody could make something better of it...?

https://fraternityofshadows.com/forum/v ... 22&start=0

I had a fast look t the thread but I 'll come back to it later, what I wanted to say is that it is funny to see all these Ravenloft revealed videos cause in most of them the pronunciation is different of at least how I pronounce some domains and characters.

SkiBird wrote: My sense is that the same sort of thing is going on here. By saying that each domain is an island unto itself ... the designers now didn't have to worry about the plot holes/inconsistencies that would be caused when one land was an apocalyptic wasteland ... while its next door neighbor was a renaissance marvel.

In other words: laziness.
True, it takes work to make the Core into a realistic continent, but that's exactly what the Gazetteers were so good at (e.g explaining why Drakov refuses to use gunpowder in his army).
Challenges lead to creativity. Avoiding them and choosing the easy way leads to lame results.

Jack the Reaper wrote:

SkiBird wrote: My sense is that the same sort of thing is going on here. By saying that each domain is an island unto itself ... the designers now didn't have to worry about the plot holes/inconsistencies that would be caused when one land was an apocalyptic wasteland ... while its next door neighbor was a renaissance marvel.

In other words: laziness.
True, it takes work to make the Core into a realistic continent, but that's exactly what the Gazetteers were so good at (e.g explaining why Drakov refuses to use gunpowder in his army).
Challenges lead to creativity. Avoiding them and choosing the easy way leads to lame results.

It's no more lazy than any other edition's revamp of Forgotten Realms via major cataclysm. I don't understand the point of being a slave to canon over such details. It's also extremely limiting when it comes to things like new races and character classes that did not exist during 2e or 3e days.

Thrackazoggg wrote:

Jack the Reaper wrote:

SkiBird wrote: My sense is that the same sort of thing is going on here. By saying that each domain is an island unto itself ... the designers now didn't have to worry about the plot holes/inconsistencies that would be caused when one land was an apocalyptic wasteland ... while its next door neighbor was a renaissance marvel.

In other words: laziness.
True, it takes work to make the Core into a realistic continent, but that's exactly what the Gazetteers were so good at (e.g explaining why Drakov refuses to use gunpowder in his army).
Challenges lead to creativity. Avoiding them and choosing the easy way leads to lame results.

It's no more lazy than any other edition's revamp of Forgotten Realms via major cataclysm. I don't understand the point of being a slave to canon over such details. It's also extremely limiting when it comes to things like new races and character classes that did not exist during 2e or 3e days.

Except the Spellplague didn’t make the lore of 3rd of 2nd Ed invalid. Separating the Core does.

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:

Thrackazoggg wrote:

Jack the Reaper wrote:
In other words: laziness.
True, it takes work to make the Core into a realistic continent, but that's exactly what the Gazetteers were so good at (e.g explaining why Drakov refuses to use gunpowder in his army).
Challenges lead to creativity. Avoiding them and choosing the easy way leads to lame results.

It's no more lazy than any other edition's revamp of Forgotten Realms via major cataclysm. I don't understand the point of being a slave to canon over such details. It's also extremely limiting when it comes to things like new races and character classes that did not exist during 2e or 3e days.

Except the Spellplague didn’t make the lore of 3rd of 2nd Ed invalid. Separating the Core does.

Oh, I disagree, whole continents have disappeared and reappeared in Toril before, gods have been killed and resurrected, characters of certain classes killed off - all because there was a seeming need to bend the setting to the rules of the latest edition and be a slave to canon.

Joël of the FoS wrote:Main writer : Wes Schneider, plus Amanda Hamon, Cassandra Khaw, Molly Ostertag and K. Tempest Bradford

Will have two choice of covers (one reserved for game stores)

Will include 30 domains, each with different horror theme, including :

- Lamordia – populated by flesh golems created by Dr. Viktra Mordenheim ("Lamordia is home to Dr. Viktra Mordenheim, who chases her escaped flesh golem, Elise, across the land.")
- Dementlieu ("creepy dark fairytale realm to set a ghoulish masquerade", and "ruled by the cruel Saidra díHonaire, is a twisted take on the fairy tale genre")
- Falkovnia (zombie apocalypse horror genre) – new darklord : cruel Vladesca Drakov ("the new Darklord is a terrible character, but also sort of the domain’s last hope to survive against this even more overwhelming supernatural disaster", "Vladeska Drakov, a notorious military commander who’s struggling to defend its last surviving city against a domain-wide zombie apocalypse.")
- Valachan - horror like The Most Dangerous Game or Hunger Games, where the populace is hunted for sport ("where the darklord Chakuna relentlessly hunts down player characters for sport")

Is this an early April Fools or something? Some sort of joke?

tomokaicho wrote: Is this an early April Fools or something? Some sort of joke?

Sigh... If only it would have been so. But sadly it's not.

Jack the Reaper wrote:

tomokaicho wrote: Is this an early April Fools or something? Some sort of joke?

Sigh... If only it would have been so. But sadly it's not.

They don't care about canon.

Imagine what they're going to do to Dragonlance.

Jack the Reaper wrote:Sigh... If only it would have been so. But sadly it's not.

Consider me triggered then. I bet no one is going to give a stuff about that.

i was initially at least a little hopeful for this because I was like, "Oh, cool, 5E folks can learn about the Core and stuff..." and then more and more info kept coming out about it and I've frankly been dying inside a little. The only Darklord that sounds remotely interesting is the Viktra Mordenheim one, and that's because I think they're maybe going to do a lesbian angle with the Viktra/Elise romance instead? I'm not against genderflipping a Darklord here and there, but the domains they've detailed thus far just feel like bad retreads of the original stuff. I plan on buying a copy (alt art, natch), reading through it once, and then holding onto it long enough that I can sell it for a better profit (I will be paying only store credit for it at my FLGS, so I'm not technically paying anything for it). I ran 250 hours of Adventurers League as a DM and spent way more time than that organizing, and almost overnight, my desire to do a single goddamn thing for Wizards of the Coast ever again just vanished into the ether.