Café de Nuit

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:

HuManBing wrote:Couldn't S could be a Vistani? It doesn't say anywhere where her mother came from.

If S is a clone of Azalin, it wouldn't matter if the surrogate mother who gave birth to her was a human, a Vistani, or even an elf. She'd only be a half-Vistani if one of Azalin's parents was a Vistani.

Right, but S is clearly not a perfect clone of Azalin because she's female. She evidently got some characteristics from somebody apart from Azalin.

For what it's worth, the Gazetteers are not written in a particularly feminine tone of voice. I get the impression much of the writing was done in GazI before the writer's gender was even fully decided upon. Perhaps early on in the design process, S was supposed to be a male mage. (But then that would have been too obvious.)

It could be that S. isn't particularly feminine. She could be the Rosie O'Donnell of Ravenloft (only with less access to donuts.)

(I don't know for a fact, but I'm fairly certain that S.'s sex was known by the writers from the outset.)

HuManBing wrote:Right, but S is clearly not a perfect clone of Azalin because she's female. She evidently got some characteristics from somebody apart from Azalin.

Even IRL humans with a Y chromosome are occasionally born as healthy, functional females, actually. It's a hormonal anomaly, not genetic, so wouldn't be impossible in a true genetic clone.

Hmmm. Another twist: Maybe Azalin thinks S is his clone, because their lives have had so much in common, but she's really not? The real clone could have proven non-viable, and terminated within days (as many zygotes do), but her mother got pregnant with S so soon afterward that the darklord assumed she was the clone. Then, the Dark Powers could have subtly manipulated S's life to substantiate the notion that she's a clone, all in order to set the Big A up for yet another epic scheme's failure....

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Even IRL humans with a Y chromosome are occasionally born as healthy, functional females, actually. It's a hormonal anomaly, not genetic, so wouldn't be impossible in a true genetic clone.

Healthy, yes. Functional, I'm not sure. IIRC from bio class, such cases aren't capable of having children, which we know S has done.

S was female from the outset. (All of the major beats in her character arc/the Gazetteer metaplot were known to the authors -- if not the developers, sadly -- from the outset.)

S doesn't seem particularly "feminine" because A) she's a reflection of Azalin, both literally and symbolically, who doesn't have a feminine bone in his body; B) since her gender was kept a mystery until Gaz 3, her "all business" tone was a requirement of the narrative, and C) all of her authors were male, depicting a character who was decidedly not intended to be in touch with her feminine side. (As opposed to how I approached the Weathermay twins, Gennifer in particular.) We did our humble best.

Readers also only saw the first third-ish of S's story, with the series ending during one of her darkest moments. A dawn, of sorts, was yet to come.

Mangrum wrote:We did our humble best.

And did very well.

Mangrum wrote: Readers also only saw the first third-ish of S's story, with the series ending during one of her darkest moments. A dawn, of sorts, was yet to come.

Wow!! Very interesting! Now I´m diyng of curiosity o know more about the other 2/3

Mr Mangrum, didn't you mention somewhere else that S. was to be substituted at some point by another character, or was supposed to get a companion?

- Sorry for asking such a cryptical question, but I didn't really keep track of the matter until now.

Rafael wrote:Mr Mangrum, didn't you mention somewhere else that S. was to be substituted at some point by another character, or was supposed to get a companion?

First I've heard of it. The closest thing I can think of to this is that in Gazetteer VI, Azalin was to have provided S with a ship and crew to cart her around the seas. A few members of the crew would have become running characters (though of course what we're really talking about is a few sentences, at most, devoted to each character per book), and would have stuck around until about halfway through Gazetteer VIII. After that, S would have been traveling solo again.

Thank you for the info. I now remember that it was indeed about S getting a ship and a crew, and not about her getting a companion.

Mangrum wrote:all of her [S.'s] authors were male, depicting a character who was decidedly not intended to be in touch with her feminine side. (As opposed to how I approached the Weathermay twins, Gennifer in particular.) We did our humble best.

That's what I'm talking about, exactly. The Weathermay twins clearly write in a softer tone, more believable as female authors, whereas S. is intentionally businesslike and androgynous.

Good to know that it was entirely under the control of the actual writers and designers, and was intended that way. You did a good job!

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:

HuManBing wrote:Right, but S is clearly not a perfect clone of Azalin because she's female. She evidently got some characteristics from somebody apart from Azalin.

Even IRL humans with a Y chromosome are occasionally born as healthy, functional females, actually. It's a hormonal anomaly, not genetic, so wouldn't be impossible in a true genetic clone.

Yes, that's an interesting possibility. In some cases where that's recorded as 5-Alpha-Reductase Deficiency (as is the case with the narrator Calliope Stephanides in Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides) the Y chromosome is intact but the cells have a hormonal anomaly that means they do not notice this and so they fall back on the other chromosome, which is the X chromosome from the mother.

Edit: I added, then deleted, a redundant part of this post.

The individual develops like a female but may have bodily features that resemble male characteristics. Usually by the time they reach puberty, the male hormones become strong enough to produce masculine changes such as a deeper voice, etc. It is unlikely that such an individual can bear children, as S. supposedly did.

But this is all academic. Basically the possibility remains open that S. could give birth to a Dukkar because we haven't disproved conclusively that she's a clone or otherwise entirely of non-Vistani heritage.

More importantly, even if we did somehow prove or disprove something for a fictitious character, that should not come in the way of making an alteration for a personal campaign if that works for the DM.

Hail Mr. Mangrum!

This "dawn" of "S" character would come gradually during the unfinished part of the series, or it would be something that the readers would perceive at the ending of the Gazetters?

One more curiosity of mine is if there was some plan to include an "epilogue" in the last gazetteer, telling the fate of "S" after she finishes the Bluestpur report (and returnig to Darkon, it is, if she ever does return), or the idea was to end the series with "S" final comments of the report, like the other volumes?

Thanks!

LUCIFERABADDON wrote:Hail Mr. Mangrum!

This "dawn" of "S" character would come gradually during the unfinished part of the series, or it would be something that the readers would perceive at the ending of the Gazetters?

It would have been a gradual process; she still had some more bottoming out to do.

LUCIFERABADDON wrote:One more curiosity of mine is if there was some plan to include an "epilogue" in the last gazetteer, telling the fate of "S" after she finishes the Bluestpur report (and returnig to Darkon, it is, if she ever does return), or the idea was to end the series with "S" final comments of the report, like the other volumes?

Very, very early in the Gazetteer development cycle (pre-Arthaus), we pencilled in a plan to wrap up the Gaz series with an adventure that would have directly involved S, Azalin, the Dukkars/demonspawn/children of the Gentleman Caller, and other major players (including the Tribe of Hyskosa). However, that was quickly dropped; by the time we actually started prepping the series for publication, S's story and the Gazeteers were fated to end at the same point.

Thanks for the answers!

That would be an adventure I surely would liked to see.

As for the idea of "S" finding some "redemption" I came to some conclusions (although I don´t know if this fits what was planned).

- "S" being a reflection of Azalin, would be like a lesson to him to see her going to a different path than him. As he is obsessed to have his son back and to try overcome his limitations (caused by his own errors) over and over and over, "S" would embrace the good way, and the resignation, and would free her daughter from a miserable existance, destroing her (like VR did with Erasmus);

or

- "S" would end being absorved by Azalin;

or

- "S" can become an opposing force to Azalin´s plan.

Does what I said makes some sense?

Mangrum wrote:Very, very early in the Gazetteer development cycle (pre-Arthaus), we pencilled in a plan to wrap up the Gaz series with an adventure that would have directly involved S, Azalin, the Dukkars/demonspawn/children of the Gentleman Caller, and other major players (including the Tribe of Hyskosa). However, that was quickly dropped; by the time we actually started prepping the series for publication, S's story and the Gazeteers were fated to end at the same point.

Can't you tell us anything about this adventure? I don't think there would be a problem revealing something about a product that will never see the light of day.