Café de Nuit

Strahdsbuddy wrote:Wasn't trying to undercut the significance of Chinese contributions to science, HMB.

Oh, absolutely. If anything, my post was merely intended more as a "here's a fun fact!" type of footnote to Herkles' post.

One very interesting possibility this raises is Van Richten's Guides. How do you think various evil organizations will feel with monster hunter guides hitting the shelves?

Also bear in mind that Van Richten openly speculates in his Guide to the Lich that Azalin is a lich. I can only imagine that Van Richten only ever commissioned a small number of his books - small enough that only a small readership would ever have seen that theory and therefore only a smaller percentage still of whom would have given it any credence whatsoever.

I can imagine if Van Richten ever tried to publish it on a larger scale, Azalin's Kargat would fire up the bonfires and start a few Nuremburg-style book burnings to keep a lid on it.

HuManBing wrote:Also bear in mind that Van Richten openly speculates in his Guide to the Lich that Azalin is a lich.

Of course, in response to that Azalin sent all his notes on demons to help the good Doctor out for his next book. Old bonehead seemed to have a good sense of humor about it.

It can easily cut both ways, though - ill-considered pamplets or books full of misinformation can be more easily spread too, possibly by the monsters themselves.

I like to imagine that van richten's works are illegal in most domians, such as barovia and darkon. However though one may find them in Dementlieu, it would be regulated to "fiction". As most dementlieuse believe vampires, liches, and so on are fictional creatures and not real. So they wouldn't be reading them.

I thought it was the Lamordians who were the arch-skeptics.

The Van Richten's guides we the players read probably are not the editions that are widely read by the public; he seems to have used Mordentish publishers eventually, and chances are they produced a few abridged versions that cut "The good Doctor's more speculative ideas and comments.". That way you could preserve the thrilling stories and morality lessons that sell without the "hard data" that would only disturb readers anyway. An unabridged Van Richten's guide might even count as a minor magic item, if you felt like rolling that way.

But considering that Van Richten's greatest legacy was inspiring a whole generation of new monster hunting adventurers, I don't know if I like the idea of his works being heavily proscribed or impossible to find. Its too heavy handed and lends the theories of a fringe scholar and adventurer too much credit; Azalin's method of just sort of laughing the implication off seems like it would be more effective when considering the status-conscious, aristocratic educated class that would be reading these books anyway.

As far as the educated domains not believing in monsters, I always thought it was kind of insulting to assume that just because a country's developed better sanitation and literacy rates means they are suddenly utterly blind to the world around them. At the very least all of these domains would likely have wild urban legends, superstitions, and other ways for people to freak each other out when they have nothing better to do. Even Lamordian rationalism is more; "There is a logical explanation for this phenomenon, we just don't understand it yet."-remember S talking about encountering oozes, ice monsters, and other threats.

well my reasoning for Dementlieuse not believing in liches, vampires, were-wolves and the like is quite simple. they do not encounter them in their domain. That doesn't mean they don't believe in the supernatural, but monsters like vampires are rare in dementlieu so most regard those creatures as fiction and likely would consider van richten's works fiction. They would not be that hard to find but the people would view them as fiction in the domain so they wouldn't be educated upon them.

However there are some creatures that dementlieuse probably do believe in. For one ghosts. Ghosts from what I remember are the one undead they do believe in. Sailors are sure to have their own superstitions. With their own monsters of the sea they believe in and what not. Also Dementlieu does host a Bastian to the Church of Ezra, so they would IMO be somewhat religious even if they only pay lip service to the church.

There are always legends, and superstitions in places. maybe not peasant, but people living down in slums like in Dementlieu would believe in stuff. Dementlieu does not seem to be the land without vampires and the like but there is monsters there, they just often tend to be human. But I can defently see a haunted hotel where an old artist that was famous in her time died and now is a ghost.

-herkles

herkles wrote:well my reasoning for Dementlieuse not believing in liches, vampires, were-wolves and the like is quite simple. they do not encounter them in their domain. That doesn't mean they don't believe in the supernatural, but monsters like vampires are rare in dementlieu so most regard those creatures as fiction and likely would consider van richten's works fiction. They would not be that hard to find but the people would view them as fiction in the domain so they wouldn't be educated upon them.

I think there's a middle ground between believing you'll never personally encounter something nasty, and assuming they simply don't exist. Someone living in Victorian England might not expect to face a man-eating tiger, yet they'd still be open to the notion that such dangerous animals exist in India, even if the stories they've heard about them are highly sensationalized. Likewise, while skeptics in Dementlieu might suspect that the stories of werewolves in Verbrek are wildly exaggerated, only the most extreme doubters would say there can't be any there at all.

That's a good compromise, Rotipher.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:
I think there's a middle ground between believing you'll never personally encounter something nasty, and assuming they simply don't exist. Someone living in Victorian England might not expect to face a man-eating tiger, yet they'd still be open to the notion that such dangerous animals exist in India, even if the stories they've heard about them are highly sensationalized. Likewise, while skeptics in Dementlieu might suspect that the stories of werewolves in Verbrek are wildly exaggerated, only the most extreme doubters would say there can't be any there at all.

I like that.


The only domain that's inhabited by a bunch of materialist skeptics, IMC, is Lamordia- and even there you find stories of ghosts, curses, etc. It's just that the respectable and/or educated Lamordians tend to look for "rational" explanations for such happenings. I use the 'Smothering of Reason' effect, so that this skeptical-materialist attitude isn't insane. It's just provincialism. Better travelled Lamordians tend to be more open- minded, of course.


Dementlieu has magic-users operating more or less openly, IMC. It's just that these magic-users usually practice the subtle or tricky sort of magic. Magic is shrouded in mystery and ritual. The people do accept the existence of magic and the supernatural. Their land has fewer supernatural monsters and even just dangerous beasties than uncivilized backwaters like Barovia, of course. And they are thankful for that!

The ordinary person in just about any domain is unlikely to travel far from home, unless he works as a river-boatman or something like that. Tales of the strange monsters and magic of foreign parts may be met with wonder, fear, disbelief, or cautious skepticism.

For example, a Barovian peasant knows that vampires are real and deadly, though he's likely never seen one. He may laugh at stories about 'dragonships' on the Musarde, steam belching monstrosities that carry whole villages in their vast bellies. He's likely never heard of mummies, and may think that Har Akir is a fairy tale land. Imagine a sea of sand, like a riverbank with no river and no rain! Preposterous!

Practical question: is there any city in RL where a person can walk down to the corner and buy a paper?

Manofevil wrote:Practical question: is there any city in RL where a person can walk down to the corner and buy a paper?

IMC? No.

There are a few cities in which handbills or broadsheets describing major events might be printed, but there are no 'newspapers.' The technology and infrastructure just don't support that. Most news is transferred by word of mouth, not print media.

Manofevil wrote:Practical question: is there any city in RL where a person can walk down to the corner and buy a paper?

Well I believe that in Port-a-Lucine and other renaissance cities you could get broadsheets and hand bills, listing major events, and more importantly propaganda by the ruling elite. But I think in these cities there would be town criers, which is how the majority of citizens get their news.

Manofevil wrote:Practical question: is there any city in RL where a person can walk down to the corner and buy a paper?

Copies of Paridon's daily newspaper are actually included as game-props in ''Shadow of the Knife". Granted, it's only one page long and the contents aren't too sophisticated, but it's most definitely a part of canon Zherisia.

herkles wrote:Also Dementlieu does host a Bastian to the Church of Ezra, so they would IMO be somewhat religious even if they only pay lip service to the church.


-herkles

Dementlieu's Ste Mere des Larmes sect of the Church of Ezra has a Bastion named Joan Secousse. If you are advancing a bit in current events, choose either Warden Armand Pineau or Warden Leonie Caille as her succesor.