Café de Nuit

The Giamarga wrote:Well iirc, canon-wise Urik hails from the Forgotten Realms, he was a panther who got turned into a man by a wizard of Thay. That wizard probably also named him. I'll have to reread the short story in Tales of Ravenloft.

The Kargat who'd turned him had a pseudo-Slavic name, IIRC. Even if "Urik" is a Thayvian name -- i.e. Generic Vague Greenwood-Fantasy-Worldish -- the canon Von Kharkov's surname was probably given to him while he was a nosferatu's slave in Darkon.

It's not really that difficult. Erik is a name that also exists in Spanish, albeit it's not very common (And with the cultural mix in colonial Mexico, I would guess a "Urik" would be tollerated... My name is Wolfgang Kook, and I'm from Colombia, after all). The name Uriel comes to mind. It's uncommon but not unheard of in Colombia... perhaps it would translate well into Mexico.

The "Von" part could easily be translated to "Don", a common title for lesser lords in the colony (And nowadays, a title that denotes respect, much like the english "Sir"), and easily recognizable to anyone who has watched the Zorro movies/books, or the Godfather.

As for the "Kharkov" part, there's where the problem starts, as it doesn't translate very easily to spanish. Usually, in spanish, "Ks" are replaced by "Cs" (The reason behind my last name usually been spelled "Cook"), the "H" is mute, but would have a sound when combined with the "C", so I would omit it... Maybe "Carpio"? It's not a very common last name, but it does sound close to Kharkov in spanish...

Don Uriel del Carpio, a.k.a. "Don Carpio"... Mmmm... To sound really like a mexican colonizer, it lacks a last name ("Del Carpio" sounds like a land title, which would translate like "From the Carpians"). Something like "Don Uriel Álvarez del Carpio", or something like that.

WolfKook wrote: As for the "Kharkov" part, there's where the problem starts, as it doesn't translate very easily to spanish. Usually, in spanish, "Ks" are replaced by "Cs" (The reason behind my last name usually been spelled "Cook"), the "H" is mute, but would have a sound when combined with the "C", so I would omit it... Maybe "Carpio"? It's not a very common last name, but it does sound close to Kharkov in spanish...

Carrascón, maybe? How would either be pronounced, anyway?

I like Don being used as an honorific. What about Carcas as a surname? It's a French/Occitan name [actually derived from Hebrew, I think] but I seem to recall that it's also a Spanish surname.

Don Carcas is a fair stand in for Von Khrakov?


I really like Wolfgang's notion of using Uriel for his first name.

Carpio would be pronounced Kar-pee-o, with a very wide "a" (like in "Hag"), the "r" pronounced as with an scottish accent, and a very short "ee".

Carrascón is much more complex... I guess it would be pronounced Kar-Raz-Kon, with the same conventions on the first syllable, the "Raz" part as in "Rascal", and the "Kon" as in "Contract". The exact pronunciation of the double "r" in spanish (rr) has a reverberating sound to it that's very dificult for english speakers...

Edit: The "Raz" part is a latin-american convention, as the "s" would be pronounced like "z" in most of south-america. In Spain, the sound would be a little closer to "sh".

Phew! Imagining how to describe the pronunciation of words in your own language is tougher than I imagined! I could record myself saying them, if you prefer...

But Don Uriel Carrascón (Or Don Uriel del Carrascón) sounds good, closer to the sound of Urik Von Kharkov than Carpio, and -unlike Carcas -I have heard it (To be precise, "Carrasco" is more common than "Carrascón", but this one has a great colony sound to it).

WolfKook wrote:Carpio would be pronounced Kar-pee-o, with a very wide "a" (like in "Hag") and the "r" pronounced as with an scottish accent.

Carrascón is much more complex... I guess it would be pronounced Kar-Raz-Kon, with the same conventions on the first syllable, the "Raz" part as in "Rascal", and the "Kon" as in "Contract". The exact pronunciation of the double "r" in spanish (rr) has a reverberating sound to it that's very dificult for english speakers...

Phew! Imagining how to describe the pronunciation of words in your own language is tougher than I imagined! I could record myself saying them, if you prefer...

But Don Uriel Carrascón (Or Don Uriel del Carrascón) sounds good, and closer to the sound of Urik Von Kharkov.

I like it.

I've been reading a lot of Spanish names of late because I am studying Latin American history [pre-Columbian to the early 1800s].

Carcas has the unfortunate connotation of carcass, as well.

Since when is an "unfortunate [i.e. morbid] connotation" an undesirable thing, in the Ravenloft setting? If names like "Mordenheim" can cut it....

Yeah, I'd considered that. I actually like Carascon better- but this is Isabella's variant.


IMC, Valachan is more Russo-Nordic-Chinookian. I've considred giving it a coastline, even...

Don Uriel Carrascón, suits me fine (with some other names tossed in the middle if he's feeling official, I guess). Since Valachan is currently sitting in the lower middle of the Core, it's likely all of the Vaasi and Balok speaking domains corrupted his name into "Von Kharkov" (and maybe that was his name, at one point), while the Mordentish speaking domains who might actually be able to pronounce that "rr" can call him Don Carrascón.

Okay, so we have a name. Anyone want to help me tackle the rest of the domain?
Wolfkook, I recall you had some plans for a New World Gazetteer a while back?

I think the true problem with Valachan was less the generic culture and more the fact it had no significance to anyone but Von Kharkov. S summed it up best in her report: "Valachan is clearly a willfully backward realm, whose isolated position and isolationist policies prevent it from ever becoming a key player in the broader world." There doesn't seem to be any reason to go there. I'm hoping that Don Carrascón's aspirations to modernize will let him actually play with other people.

Here's some things I wanted Valachan to be up to:
-For one thing, Valachan would have to interact with Hazlan and Kartakass on a regular basis to get the manufactured goods they need. I don't think Valachan has anything in the way of hard metals, for one, which Hazlan has (and Hazlan seems pretty short on timber). Valachan also doesn't have the industrial power to manufacture all the goods it needs, meaning it has to import them via the Musarde river.

-On the other hand, if Don Carrascón can keep himself from being reamed over by the other domains diplomats, he's sitting on one of the richest domains in the Core. Having a new world climate means it can export all its new world foods - peppers, tomatoes, etc. I imagine that coffee and rubber and chocolate would be great exports, along with colorful birds and exotic species, and probably a whole lot of silver.

-I don't really want Don Carrascón's control to be as absolute as Von Kharkov's. In cannon Valachan, it seemed like he'd pretty much succeeded in his control freak plans and there wasn't much else for him to do. I figure something has to be screwing up Don Carrascón's attempts to modernize, even if that requires breaking from the "darklord's theme shapes his domain" gold standard. The people of Valachan aren't too keen on modernization, but I don't want the domain to be overrun with rebels like Falkovnia and Invidia; obviously there will be some resistance fighters but I figure most resistance is passive in nature. Maybe the jungle itself keeps overgrowing the domain.

-I'm also not sure if the term "colonial" quite applies, since Don Carrascón isn't trying to exploit his country - he's trying to make it a Core power (something else which might create adventure ideas, since I doubt any of the other Darklords want that). Then again, there's probably some form of hereditary nobility - probably werejaguar bloodlines.

Given that the domain would also have a particular fascination with the spirits of the dead, a slew of old gods who might still be lurking about, the legacy of human sacrifice from the old days (a legacy that certainly might make Don Carrascón's attempt to "civilize" his people a bit more sympathetic), remnants of the old culture deep within the jungle resisting Don Carrascón's rule, and ancient mysterious ruins, I would like to think that this makes the domian slightly more worth going to, although I would still like help with the culture. Dios des Muertos can only take you so far (although it's a great thing to base the "feel" of the domain on).

So I where does that leave me for Don Carrascón's background? I have absolutely no idea.

Isabella wrote:Okay, so we have a name. Anyone want to help me tackle the rest of the domain?
Wolfkook, I recall you had some plans for a New World Gazetteer a while back?

Yeap, but that project proved too big to undertake, so I moved to rewriting all of Ravenloft (To be honest, I'm thinking on taking that project into a simpler direction that what I intended on the first place).

What can I help you with?

Isabella wrote:I don't really want Don Carrascón's control to be as absolute as Von Kharkov's. In cannon Valachan, it seemed like he'd pretty much succeeded in his control freak plans and there wasn't much else for him to do. I figure something has to be screwing up Don Carrascón's attempts to modernize, even if that requires breaking from the "darklord's theme shapes his domain" gold standard. The people of Valachan aren't too keen on modernization, but I don't want the domain to be overrun with rebels like Falkovnia and Invidia; obviously there will be some resistance fighters but I figure most resistance is passive in nature. Maybe the jungle itself keeps overgrowing the domain.

Well, the darklord's theme could shape the domain. Don Carrascón is a beast trying too hard to be human (And failing to accept its true nature), his domain can be a reflection of that: As the darklord attempts to bring modernity to the domain, the jungle and the culture of the people (Who are savage and violent, prone to fall prey to their most basic instincts, with a bad temper and still follow some of the tenets of what remains of their brutal religion) prevent him from achieving his goal.

WolfKook wrote: Yeap, but that project proved too big to undertake, so I moved to rewriting all of Ravenloft (To be honest, I'm thinking on taking that project into a simpler direction that what I intended on the first place).

What can I help you with?

Well I still need help with the culture; everyone got hung up on Von Kharkov! I don't know if any of the domains are as advanced as the new Valachan would be, but the rainforest probably contains a lot of old cultural artifacts. A nahuatl replacement for Yutow might be good as well, and any other gods that might still linger in the people's consciousness (Tezcatlipoca, for one, will probably be seeing a lot of use, as well as Mictecacihuatl, who is supposedly the reason for the Day of the Dead).

Well, the darklord's theme could shape the domain. Don Carrascón is a beast trying too hard to be human (And failing to accept its true nature), his domain can be a reflection of that: As the darklord attempts to bring modernity to the domain, the jungle and the culture of the people (Who are savage and violent, prone to fall prey to their most basic instincts, with a bad temper and still follow some of the tenets of what remains of their brutal religion) prevent him from achieving his goal.

Well, I wouldn't say the people are all savage and violent; for one thing, this place is right next to Invida, for another, I'm already worried I'll get yelled at for Don Carrascón Let's say the original resistance to Don Carrascón came from him knocking over the ruling class and upsetting all the people who benefited from the system (making him not entirely unlike Cortez) - and then he started trying to stamp out all the old culture and upset everyone. Now that his people are practically slaves, they probably sabotage his work passively, while the forest does so actively. Still, the northern part of Valachan is probably quite modern for the standards of the Core.

Alright, let's start my revision of Don Carrascón. One of the things that I did get from the Gaz is that Von Kharkov seemed to have some serious Obsessive-compulsive personalitysymptoms, and I don't think that's a bad thing to keep for Don Carrascón. Of course, he's a wild animal at heart and his behavior often isn't orderly, so some of the symptoms wouldn't apply - any attempt at list making would probably result in him crumpling up the paper and throwing it against the wall, for example.

I like interconnecting domains, so let's say Don Carrascón was a Hazlani experiment (at which point he probably had a different name - Hazlan always gave me a slight Middle Eastern vibe, so we'll say his name was Karakul, aka Caracal). Maybe he was an imported jaguar, so his homeland would still be mirrored by Valachan. He fit in pretty well with the Rashemi, and the Mulani wizard who made him enjoyed using him to terrify his slaves when he felt they were slacking off. Maybe he also used Don Carrascón to knock off rivals who didn't expect a slave to suddenly turn into a 400lb cat. At some point the Mulani went too far, and magically forced Don Carrascón to murder an innocent woman while she begged for mercy. Don Carrascón had liked said woman, and the wizard lost control of his pet; Don Carrascón tore him to shreds.

After the rage settled, Don Carrascón felt pretty sick about the entire affair; he was confused and suddenly without a master, and smart enough to know what happened to Mulani experiments that were deemed dangerous. As luck would have it, he was rescued by another Mulani wizard (who perhaps felt sorry for the poor creature, or didn't like his former master, or maybe s/he just liked cats). His new master tried to teach him how to be human; unfortunately, that education involved a lot of the Lawgiver's teachings, with ideas of divine right and brutal punishments for those who disobeyed. Don Carrascón became convinced he was in the wrong for the murder of his master, who had only been exercising the will of the Lawgiver. At the same time, he could not justify what had happened to the young woman to himself. Wracked with guilt, Don Carrascón traveled about the Core, hoping to learn how to behave properly.

Outside of Hazlan, Don Carrascón received a great deal contradictory information on what was "civilized" behavior and was introduced to Dementlieuse high culture. Don Carrascón personally hated all of it, a failing he attributed to his savage and bestial nature. As he tried harder to force himself to fit in, he became slightly neurotic, gaining an idealized idea of true humanity. He began to hold himself to impossible rigid standards, recriminating himself whenever he slipped, even if that slip was relatively minor in nature.

I am not sure how he found himself in his domain of Valachan, but when he saw the human sacrifices and violent culture practiced by the ruling class of the natives, he took it upon himself to "civilize" the domain. He led the lower class and slaves and took control of the domain, but the natives soon found he was not content with this, and was determined to remake the entire domain in his idea of what it should be like, stamping out the old culture and religions. When the natives resisted, Don Carrascón became brutal in his tactics.

Don Carrascón's factory conditions are poor, and his enforcements harsh. He holds others to his same impossible standards he holds himself. So, for instance, his habit of killing his wives is partially due to his constant self-recrimination, and partially due to his excessive expectations. Whenever he finds his wife (who he has probably overly idealized) has any particular flaw in her personality, it triggers a downward spiral in his relationship that ends with him killing her.

Once again, I'm worried I'm in "you can get yelled at for this" territory, but I suppose the people mentioning the drow had a point.

Comments/concerns/additions/subtractions welcome.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Since when is an "unfortunate [i.e. morbid] connotation" an undesirable thing, in the Ravenloft setting? If names like "Mordenheim" can cut it....

Agreed, but there's a line somewhere between Dr. Mordenheim and Baron Bloodnguts von Corpse.

Anyone have any further thoughts on Von Kharkov/Don Carrascon? One of the major issues with the backstory I tried to write for him is his methods from the Gaz aren't really reconcilable with it. For instance, why would he want werejaguars as his lackeys to remind him of the native culture he stamped out and his own failings? I could make him like Doc Duvalier but that also seems to run against the idea of his theme (as opposed to before, where his theme is "control", meaning he'd employ any means).

I'd also like to find some way of tying him to the religion of the domain, especially Tezcatlipoca, whether he likes it or not (and I doubt he does). Some of the notes claim he tests mankind by trying to tempt them, so perhaps Don Carrascon's high standards could play into that. Some notes of interest I found over the web:

Tezcatlipoca’s main feast was during Toxcatl, the fifth month of the Aztec calendar. The preparations began a year earlier, when a young man was chosen by the priests, to be the likeness of Tezcatlipoca. For the next year he lived like a god, wearing expensive jewellery and having eight attendants. He would marry four young women, and spent his last week singing, feasting and dancing. During the feast where he was worshipped as the deity he personified he climbed the stairs to the top of the temple on his own where the priests seized him and sacrificed him, his body being eaten later. Immediately after he died a new victim for the next year’s ceremony was chosen. Tezcatlipoca was also honoured during the ceremony of the 9th month, when the Miccailhuitontli "Little Feast of the Dead" was celebrated to honour the dead, as well as during the Panquetzaliztli "Raising of Banners" ceremony in the 15th month.

The patron god of helpless folk such as orphans and slaves, he was also the patron of royalty, and he gloried in war and human sacrifice. Another of Tezcatlipoca's roles was to punish sinners and cheats, but he himself could not be trusted.
Although associated with the sun, Tezcatlipoca was even more strongly linked with night and its dark mysteries, including dreams, sorcery, witches, and demons. Legend said that he roamed the earth each night in the form of a skeleton whose ribs opened like doors. If a person met Tezcatlipoca and was bold enough to reach through those doors and seize his heart, the god would promise riches and power in order to be released. He would not keep his promises, though.

Might be some potential for inspiration there.

Isabella wrote:One of the major issues with the backstory I tried to write for him is his methods from the Gaz aren't really reconcilable with it. For instance, why would he want werejaguars as his lackeys to remind him of the native culture he stamped out and his own failings?

Convenience, maybe? Perhaps the Dark Powers gave him the ability to control werejaguars in their animal or hybrid forms, as an extension of Von Kharkov's control over mundane cats. It's not that he necessarily welcomes such reminders of his past; he's just working with the assets available to him, and knows he can rely on the werejaguars to obey him without question.

If his minions also remind the Don of the "bad old days", which gets on his nerves ... well, DP-granted powers always have their down side.