Café de Nuit

Isabella wrote:I've toyed with the idea of Ravenloft 2000. It would be a rather fun thought exercise, at the very least.

Me too, I absolutely adore dystopic futures.

Sometimes I get weird ideas of what things would be like in Ravenloft under a paradigm time shift. The Vistani always seemed to come out as a weird amalgamation of an organization similar to the Spacing Guild from Dune, and the cabbies from The 5th Element.

Hmm...Very good responses.

And yes, gonzoron: I always thought of the "cyberpunk" domain as a distant and more-than-slightly elitist place that looks down on the "primitives" of the Core.

Of course, that doesn't mean they aren't subject to the same prejudices and evils of normal domains...

Personally, I'm not sure how easily the cyberpunk genre's pervasive Keep-Up-With-Technology-Or-Get-Run-Over angst would carry over into Ravenloft, save perhaps in Paridon. But then, I'm one of those folks who think that real cyberpunk literature died out, as soon as the World Wide Web convinced the reading public that computers honestly aren't scary or impressive.


If blending high-tech into a game setting without allowing it to spread is at issue, I might as well mention a solution that the Mystara writers came up with: in a pinch, the gods (or Immortals, Dark Powers, etc) could always cheat. Take high-tech hardware out of its proper context, and the devices may simply cease to operate.

In the Hollow World -- another massive construct by powerful, enigmatic entities -- there's a small enclave of elves left over from an ancient era when Mystara was dominated by high technology. Like other Hollow World races, they were brought to the planet's interior by Immortals (OD&D deity-equivalents) who like to preserve representative samples of cultures they'd been fond of, that are headed for extinction on the surface. However, the Immortals couldn't let the Blacklore elves' tech spread to any of the other preserved societies, so they swapped out all of their machines for constructs and magical items that look like tech, while erasing the elves' memories of how such equipment really operated. So far as the Blacklore elves know, they're still living in a high-tech society of robots and so forth, but if they take such items out of their valley, it all mysteriously "breaks down".

I'm not saying that the Dark Powers would literally have to switch a high-tech domain's machinery for constructs, or that a little technology couldn't be allowed to spread, if DMs want to allow it. But prohibiting any technologies above a certain culture-level from functioning in lower-CL domains wouldn't be a bad idea. Certainly, there's precedent (albeit in optional rules) for magic becoming more or less effective in particular domains, so why not technology? If Vechor's an example of how radically the DPs can muck with Ravenloft's reality, they'd certainly be capable of imposing such limitations.

High Priest Mikhal wrote:We'll I'll put it simply: high tech = bad for Ravenloft. Every other aspect of the cyberpunk genre is pretty appropriate, I agree.

There's always the replicators option ( a la Stargate). Not to mention, when most people think hi-tech, they think of our modern era--but who says the high technology has to be "modern." How about introducing tech that by definition would be recognized as tech but is very old. Isn't that the premise of the tech behind the Goa'uld, the Ancients, and Ori.

Sorry for the use of Stargate references. The series, to me anyway, makes great use of "old" high technology.

There is also the singular hi-tech villian option. With all of the d20 material out there, it shouldn't be too hard to intro an NPC from d20 Modern/Future or d20 SW.

Way back in 2nd ed. when I was on a domain-creation craze, I created a VR domain based from XXVc Buck Rogers--or was it Gamma World?

I'm thinking of introducing a "Western Gothic" villain to my campaign, similar to Anton Chigurh from "No Country For Old Men".

He's going to be a darkling shadowdancer, but I haven't thought much about his weapon of choice. I'm thinking of a blowgun that fires Beads of Force.

I don't believe that they really are compatible. All questions of atmosphere aside, there's also an intrinsic moral dimension to the Ravenloft setting that isn't reflected in cyberpunk.

RL's theme of "strong morality" is so awkwardly and randomly handled in canon material that, when compared to Cyberpunk's supposed stoic amorality, the two do seem completely incompatible at first glance.

I'd argue however that cyberpunk often deals with tales that clearly establish good and evil and whatever in-between there might be. I've rarely seen cyberpunk material depicting mega corporations as good and wholesome. And for all their flaws, even the most hardened hacker is at worst just a futuristic Byronic hero.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:If blending high-tech into a game setting without allowing it to spread is at issue, I might as well mention a solution that the Mystara writers came up with: in a pinch, the gods (or Immortals, Dark Powers, etc) could always cheat. Take high-tech hardware out of its proper context, and the devices may simply cease to operate.

The corp that runs the domain could and would do this without DP assistance. Keep in mind that electronic devices need electrical power to function. Outside the domain of origin, there is no power grid. Worse yet, it's very likely that in order to protect a monopoly on the sale of electrical power, all devices are deliberately engineered to only use the corp's power grid, and none other. Battery powered devices will function off-grid for a little while, but they will all need to be recharged eventually. Other infrastructure not existing outside the domain but necessary for tech to operate includes GPS satellite signals (although in this case, the actual satellites probably no longer exist, but the signals are produced by the DPs directly) and wireless networks (which are of course range-limited). Even tech which shouldn't actually require network access to function probably does anyway, again for economic reasons. In the real world there is already software which is paid for by the unit of time and "phones home" every so often to verify that the user has paid up; in a dystopian future this sort of thing can be assumed to be ubiquitous.

Unfortunately, restricting the tech purely because the BBEC (Big Bad Evil Corp) has a monopoly on power-grid access only works if said BBEC doesn't conclude that it can make a fortune by exporting some of its technology. How much gold would Azalin shell out for access to a form of "magic" that he isn't barred from learning? How badly does this (presumably urban) new cyberpunk domain need to import food, that Drakov's Ministry of Science will happily trade huge quantities of in exchange for superweapons? How many IRL corporations unload unsafe products or weapons on developing nations to grab a quick buck?

Never mind adding cell phone service to Port-a-Lucine or Internet cafes in Mordentshire. The real problem, there, is the crates of cheap AK-47s that are bound to wind up in the hands of the highest bidder (first ammo-clips gratis, later ones for sale at fifty times the production cost). Who cares if they're obsolete back home in Cyber-Domain, if the sellers still make a profit? That's what happened in North America, when a trade in firearms with the natives first kicked off.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Unfortunately, restricting the tech purely because the BBEC (Big Bad Evil Corp) has a monopoly on power-grid access only works if said BBEC doesn't conclude that it can make a fortune by exporting some of its technology.

Precisely why I would only consider such a thing as a Masque-like sub-setting of RL. If you find it fun to have high-tech pour into the Core, go ahead. But then you're getting into fanfic-like crossover stuff. Star Trek:TNG meets X-men was a fun, bizarre, what-if read. But it wasn't a serious X-men story, nor a serious Star Trek story.

A serious high-tech domain would have to be nearly completely isolated from the low-tech domains, but nothing in the nature of RL precludes such domains, and one could argue we've already got something similar in the form of MotRD, just not AS high-tech as cyberpunk.

The problem with using a "Hollow World" solution for tech in a domain is that many people tend to forget that there is evidence that real-world ancient Greeks and Egyptians had clockwork devices for navigation and simple acid batteries for use in electroplating gold onto statues (take a look at some of those statues--too smooth to be hammered). Not to mention, the Aztecs had the highest gold output in history (even by today's standards). How'd they do it?

Just be careful about making assumptions on tech based from our 21st century perspective. Who knows what's been lost over the millenia due to natural disasters and overzealous religious persecution.

If we were discussing real-world ancient societies, yes, that would be a possible subject for dispute. But we're talking about in-game societies which are (loosely) based on modern-day game designers' not-all-that-expert notions of past cultures. Even if clockwork existed in the ancient Greece of our own planet, who's to say that the made-up, Greek-legend-inspired world that Althea the medusa came from would necessarily have such technology also? Or that, if a Greek-based culture were imported to Ravenloft, the DPs would bother to include that know-how?

Unless incorporating something will either A) equip the resident darklord with an appropriate habitat, or B) drive said darklord up the wall, there's no call to represent every conceivable cultural nuance in a given domain. Sithicus doesn't have a Tower of High Sorcery, Darkon doesn't mention the Great Kingdom in its false history, and Har'Akir doesn't have a single pyramid. Domains, to the extent that they do re-enact real world historical settings and periods, resemble a nondescript sampling of those places and eras, not the epitome of their achievements.

HuManBing wrote:For what it's worth, I always thought Thief: The Dark Project and sequels could work well in a Ravenloft setting.

What about "Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magica Obscura"?

Here's an idea for a cyberpunky domain; The Renraku Arcology in Shadowrun. It was sealed for years by Deus, but what if the inside had been pulled into Ravenloft as domain for the AI?

That way it limits the tech the PCs can salvage, it offers a way for them to experience future tech, Deus was experimenting on the meatbags inside so there's a visceral aspect, the natives would know about magic and demi-humans, but there's still the predjudice of the Japanacorps in Shadowrun to fit with the racism of the other domains.

It fits quite well.