Café de Nuit

Mangrum wrote:All living von Zaroviches are descended from Sturm, who was not present at the wedding.

Both prime material *and* RL von Zaroviches? Oh...I see. Sturm's children already sired on the outside, and whatever Sturm got up to within RL, yes?

Slerm

Hello everyone, I am a long time lurker and first time poster.

Slerm,
Avalanche Press have a supplement called Vlad the Impaler,Blood Prince of Wallachia. The adventure contained within is not great but the background info which makes some two thirds of the supplement is excellent and could be easily used to represent a pre RL Barovia.
Of special interest to you might be the section on Vlad's army and those of the Turks(Tergs...).
I dont know how readily available it is now as my copy is several years old but I reckon it shouldnt be too difficult to get hold of.
The general gist of the chapter states that Horsemen decide battles in the Balkans. Infantry are for the most part poorly equipped and ill trained conscripts from amongst the rural peasantry. There are a few professional footsoldiers in the German or Italian styles but these are mainly mercenaries.Pikemen to fend off the swarms of Turkish horse as well as crossbowmen and occasional arquebusiers are the most common.
Heavy horse are uncommon. They are raised from amongst the Boyar nobility and are poorly regarded by Vlad. Their courage and ability seems to be questionable and their resolve is stiffened by the inclusion of mercenary men at arms among their ranks.
Light cavalry,known as Hussar's,are the mainstay of Vlad's army. Among his native Wallachians he has organised two separate and distinct corps. The first is the Black Hussars or Calarasi. These are raised from volunteers among the lesser nobility. They are mainly unarmoured and perform a scouting or skirmishing role. They are armed with lance, sabre and shield along with an occasional bow.
The second group are the Red Hussars or Rosiori. These are volunteers from amongst the commoners and are regarded as fiercer battle cavalry although they too are rarely armoured.This group is regarded as Vlad's bodyguard unit.

I really like your campaign idea, a sort of "Strahd's descent into darkness". However, I would really reconsider adding "from the Shadows" to the mix: first of all, apart from the wedding I don't think it's a great adventure - more of a dungeon crawl deluxe. Second, in my experience players usually dislike discarding the characters they have grown fond of and roll up new ones. So, do you really need PCs from the future to witness something that's happening in the group's original time? I'd suggest you let the original players witness the wedding themselves, instead of sending some new phantoms back in time. Maybe they were invited - after they so valiently fought in battle alongside Strahd - and now have to save themselves and a few of their favorite NPCs from the claws of now-monster Strahd and Leo Dilisnya's Assassins - both of which wouldn't be too keen to let any witnesses survive...

Also, another story hook for the military part of your campaign: the characters and a part of Strahd's army are cut of from the rest and besieged by the Tergs. They would have to fight against dwindeling food supplies, despair - and maybe something very bad is INSIDE with them, in their fortress, something way worse than the Terg. Or they have to sneak their way out through the ring of Tergs to get a message through to the main army.

I also love the idea that Sergei is a carefree boy who has never had anything to do with the war. I don't know as much about RL by heart as most here, as it seems, but how old would Sergei have been when the Terg War raged? Would he have even been old enough to take any active part? This would make the contrast between Strahd and his little brother even more pronounced, which, as Roti already mentioned, is vital to Strahd's Fall From Grace...

And another thing, about your question on the young "brides": well, I think it mainly depends on the way you handle it. As long as you only hint at what is really going on, and maybe even let the PCs save the brides before anything bad happens, I don't think this would cause any trouble. Of course it strongly depends on your group, you could also take the other extreme, maybe a woman is driven mad by what happened and the players never really find out what it was the Terg did to her - although I'd at least let the woman be mature enough by our standards, and refrain from flat out telling the players about the gruesome things that happened to her...

And welcome Fitzhugh, glad you decided to step into the light!

CorvusCornix wrote:I also love the idea that Sergei is a carefree boy who has never had anything to do with the war. I don't know as much about RL by heart as most here, as it seems, but how old would Sergei have been when the Terg War raged? Would he have even been old enough to take any active part?

Sergei was 27 when he died, so he'd have been 23 when the war was at or near its climax (347 BC). Old enough to have fought if he wasn't slated for the priesthood, but probably still finishing up with his theological training, especially if he'd gotten any secular and/or court education first. In contrast, Strahd -- destined for the military by birth-order -- would've likely been training as a soldier even before the Tergs invaded, and knew no other sort of life than the army.

The original invasion by the Tergs happened shortly before Sergei's birth, so he'd have grown up in exile, perhaps thinking of his parents' royal status as a thing very much in doubt: yet another contrast between the brothers, if you want to play to that. Small wonder, that Sergei was more empathetic towards the peasantry than Strahd -- who, left to his own devices, likely wouldn't even have noticed Tatyana among the crowd of "insignificant yokels" -- if he only half-believed in his own title's relevance! Studying and working with clergy from all walks of life would've also made his perspective broader than Strahd's, who had little respect for non-military folk, and since he grew up in the lowlands, Sergei probably spent more of his life in cities than Strahd as well.

As for the "carefree" part, you could spin it that way. Personally, I kind of like the notion that Sergei wasn't the complete idiot he's too often taken to be -- heck, even Strahd admitted his kid brother was smart on occasion -- and had faced more hardship than his eventual murderer suspected. Sure, Sergei wasn't a warrior ... but life at court in Old Borjia can't have been that sheltered, with snakes like Leo Dilisnya jockeying for power, and many of the Old Borjian nobility had good cause to resent the Von Zaroviches and kick them while they were down. I can't help but suspect that a lot of skullduggery and veiled threats took place, that neither Sergei and Sturm nor their parents would've told Strahd about: after all, he was the Great General with a war to win, and distracting him with reports of the other great families' insults and attacks could've easily cost Strahd the war or his life.

Looking at it that way, I'm not even sure we can assume it was really the Tergs, who had Barov and Ravenovia murdered. Now, that might be an interesting subplot to look into, especially if the PCs are sworn to secrecy about their investigations -- by Sturm or even by Sergei -- and are required to keep the truth from Strahd, so he won't lose focus on the battlefield at a critical moment...

I like the idea of making the PCs make contact with Sergei, and sympathize with him: Sergei was to be High Priest, so maybe he would be as kind as charismatic as he was clever and diplomatic (As Corvus said, Leo Dilisnya and the other greedy nobles were still around, and the scars of the War of the Silver Knives weren't totally healed by then). Saving Tatyana is also an interesting hook (Again, I'm with Corvus in the way you should handle the "bride" situation), and perhaps you may work your way into making the PCs the reason Sergei and Tatyana meet in the first place.

Also, the political play is something you may also want to play, to divert the plot from the war at least for a while (It could get a little boring if overplayed). Being trusted captains under the orders of Strahd, maybe they might be sent home for a while, with extra orders of looking over Strahd's interests in Borjia.

To add a little more spice to the soup... I would like to ask: How would Sturm fit into the equation? WHO, exactly, would Sturm be back then?

For war adventure hooks, look at "Heroes of Battle".

Thanks for the ideas!

As of this moment, I think I'm going to start the "regular" campaign with the eventual "From the Shadows" characters, and alternate between that and the soldiers campaign.

We are looking to do something a little bit different, so we were thinking of having a squad of soldiers, with each player controlling multiple characters in the squad. Likely, they will all start out with NPC character classes from the DMG rather than be real fighters, etc.

As for the Tergs--I'm scrapping the brides idea (i think it would be too much), but perhaps keeping the idea of describing them as human but giving them half-orc stats, etc. Basically, I want them to be kind of like the bad guys in the 13th Warrior. Just plain ol' scary, at least at first. Another comparison might be to the Reavers from Firefly. However, it would make a nice transition for the players to find them very monstrous at first, only to discover that they *do* have some kind of honor system, etc., etc., and respect them while having to fight them anyway.

Another thing we're thinking of trying out, is having the players play the part of the NPCs in many situations, with the idea that they will do so with respect to the entire game, but also with the idea of making plot hooks and/or "interesting times" for the PCs, etc.

Nay sayers tell me that this is a wonderful way to play, but that it can't really be done with D&D/D20... I suppose we shall see. The other aspect of the players playing with the NPCS comes in cut scenes. Say, for example, there are two guards who first encounter an approaching zombie horde--the PCs play the guards, and their reactions determine if a guard comes screaming into town or whether they got slaughtered and everyone continues to sleep, not knowing what approaches.

We hope this is going to be a lot of fun, though admittedly it requires a lot of trust, as it is very ripe for abuse.

Any more ideas/suggestions?

Slerm

p.s. Tell me about Heroes of Battle!

All right. I've done some research on the Turks, etc., the real Vlad the Impaler, and so forth.

It's interesting to see how the Ravenloft designers pulled the good from the character of the real life Vlad to make Strahd, and pulled the bad to make Vlad Drakov.

Anyway, after reading about the Turks, it doesn't really seem right to make them as barbarian as I was going to--they should be more "whirling dervishes" than Mongol types.

As an aside, I've been thinking about the perspective of the Tergs, especially in light of having them (as suggested in this thread), going through Borjia/Barovia as part of being routed from somewhere else, they have a noble leader, the two generals respect each other, etc., etc. The problem I have is--how to let the PCs find out about some of that stuff? I.e. As it stands, I might as well fire up the word processor and write a short story. The characters need to determine a lot of this action, not me.

Also, I was thinking about having them play out some of the intrigue in the Borjian court (also as suggested in this thread). Ideas for that?

SLerm

Turks =/= Tergs. Do whatever you want with the Tergs.

Slerm wrote:Also, I was thinking about having them play out some of the intrigue in the Borjian court (also as suggested in this thread). Ideas for that?

First, you should decide in what year you'll be starting off the campaign. It will make a big difference if, for example, it begins before 347, when Barov and Ravenovia are still alive. This will also have implications for how you portray General Strahd himself, as before his parents were murdered, it was it his father whom Strahd was trying to restore to the throne, and who'd actually held nominal (albeit mostly on paper) authority over all of unoccupied Borjia.

Then, you should read "I, Strahd" and the LotB entries for the Boritsis, Dilisnyas, and Von Zaroviches. That should give you a better sense of where the former two families' loyalties lay, and of what relationships the other families (most notably, the Wachters and Buchvolds) once had with General Strahd, the exiled VZ royals as a whole, and with each other. Do keep in mind that much of "I, Strahd" is colored by Strahd's opinions and disinformation, so if you want to fiddle with what it tells us, go ahead.

Mangrum wrote:Turks =/= Tergs. Do whatever you want with the Tergs.

You're quite right. Sadly, I'm ashamed to admit that I realized I was sort of thinking of them as wolf-riding mongols, not too unlike the orcs in The Hobbit.

I figure that, while there really isn't anything original these days, perhaps that bit at least has been a little bit overdone, even for a D&D game.

Thus, arabian samurai! (sort of, anyway). I was also thinking of that as far as a reason for an Inajira pact on Strahd's part. I.e. The Tergs could use Djinn (which the Borjians see as devils), and Strahd needs a way to negate them, etc. etc.

SLerm.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:

Slerm wrote:Also, I was thinking about having them play out some of the intrigue in the Borjian court (also as suggested in this thread). Ideas for that?

First, you should decide in what year you'll be starting off the campaign. It will make a big difference if, for example, it begins before 347, when Barov and Ravenovia are still alive. This will also have implications for how you portray General Strahd himself, as before his parents were murdered, it was it his father whom Strahd was trying to restore to the throne, and who'd actually held nominal (albeit mostly on paper) authority over all of unoccupied Borjia.

Then, you should read "I, Strahd" and the LotB entries for the Boritsis, Dilisnyas, and Von Zaroviches. That should give you a better sense of where the former two families' loyalties lay, and of what relationships the other families (most notably, the Wachters and Buchvolds) once had with General Strahd, the exiled VZ royals as a whole, and with each other. Do keep in mind that much of "I, Strahd" is colored by Strahd's opinions and disinformation, so if you want to fiddle with what it tells us, go ahead.

Good ideas, and thanks for the ideas on what to read in what order. I hadn't considered starting when Barov and Ravenovia were still alive. That's an interesting idea. Politically, the real king in the real life Vlad's area was elected by boyars...so that would be reason for the whole traitor in the castle thing--political maneuvering because much of the kingship was not determined by bloodline.

What does LotB stand for? Having done my historical research, I'm dangerously close to having to go under the house for my ravenloft boxes (they were consigned to the crawlspace when we moved). However, that said, I'm kind of looking forward to it! My group is starting to come together too, so hopefully I'll be able to get something going pretty soon. (Pretty soon in relative terms, of course).

Slerm

"Legacy of the Blood" is the Arthaus 3.5 book on the great families of the Core, and one of the better RL supplements IMO.

Note that the Von Zaroviches ruled Borjia for over three centuries straight -- that's what the Barovian calender starts from, in fact -- after their founding heroine booted the Neurani (~Mongols) out of the region. Unless they had an extremely good track-record as leaders, I doubt if her descendents would have held on to power for that long, if the throne of Borjia wasn't purely hereditary.

In "I, Strahd: The War Against Azalin", Strahd and Azalin actually talk a bit about kingship as Barovian (really Borjian, but Strahd evidently forgot the name of his homeland when the Mists grabbed him) tradition interprets it. Apparently, in the distant past, a would-be king in Balok-speaking culture had to prove his commitment to his people by letting himself be ritually killed, then resurrected. [Note that, under the 2E rules that prevailed when the novels were written, resurrection-magic didn't always succeed!] This was evidently a means of weeding out cowards and self-serving or faithless candidates for rulership, although the practice had evolved into a simpler rite by Strahd's day, in which a new liege scattered a little of his blood on the soil of his new dominion.

Interesting. I'll have to find this article I have on ritual killing of kings/rulers and post it for the interested.

At what point did the term "Borjia" get introduced? Was that 3e or 2e, or from whence does it come?

Also, it would be biting off more than I could chew, (would require a regular group that met weekly, etc. etc.), but it would be fun to run a relatively short campaign in which one of the PCs turns out to be that long lost Von Zarovich that repels the mongols, etc. Then fast forward to the "Strahd as Good Guy" phase...then again....

But, that is beyond the scope of what I can do at the moment. Fun to think about though, innit?

Slerm

"Borjia" was introduced in Gaz IV, IIRC. TSR deliberately avoided ever naming Strahd's homeland, or pinning him down to any one campaign setting, because they wanted it to be easy for DMs to incorporate his past into their own Material Plane game-settings if they wanted to. I guess Arthaus figured it was high time that policy changed, if only so they could efficiently describe the historical links between Barovia and Borca.

Unfortunately, the only mention of the Neuroni -- a name that drives the bio-professer in me buggo, BTW: it sounds like something from nervous tissue -- and the Von Zarovich who defeated them is a one-line token mention in S's Gaz I history of Barovia. I'm not even sure what her first name was, let alone anything about her.

While we're on the subject--Strahd's farther is King...but...rather than Prince Strahd, we have Count Strahd? Is that ever explained anywhere?

Slerm