Café de Nuit

How about some form of greater shadow fiends as the identity of the Dark Powers?
Some type of Shadow Fiend Lords that have weaved the dread realm out of darkness.

I am the Dark Powers.

Out of curiosity, is there anyone who views the Dark Powers as a force for good, seeing Ravenloft as a refining force?

Another view of the Dark Powers can be similar to that of Satan (lit. "the adversary") as portrayed in "The Book of Job" in the Bible, where he was still an angel and seen as holy (not yet the evil "Devil" that we have today), but given the responsibility of testing the faithful. Ultimately, the Dark Powers are making the holy truly prove their worth just as Job was forced to suffer so many tortures to prove that he was truly righteous. In a world where the truly evil do gain such power, how much more difficult is it for the righteous to remain so? And how much more does their virtuousness count when compared against? And what value would this righteousness have if not contested by evil? To paraphrase Alan Moore, "perhaps evil is merely the dark loam from which virtue arises."

The Dark Powers need not be evil, after all, merely inscrutable.

(My personal view, however, is that the Dark Powers are merely a force of nature, that Powers Checks and the like are no different than hurricanes or snowstorms, merely a product of the local physics of the Demiplane of Dread; remember that in gothic literature, however, that nature is not your friend but is cold and uncaring of humanity)

The notion of the DPs as truly Good isn't particularly credible, as there's every indication that they don't even come close to following the strict moral standards which Powers Checks and the like would seem to impose upon mere mortals. At best, one could make the argument that they think they're accomplishing something for "the greater good" -- much like Elena Faith-Hold or Diamabel do -- but in truth, they'd be total hypocrites for exploiting and facilitating the sufferings of the innocent (or the guilty for that matter), even as they shamelessly smack villains who'd felt their offenses to be equally justified.

If the Dark Powers won't subject themselves to same moral scrutiny they're trying to foist on lesser beings, then they're nowhere near to qualifying as Good, even if they did have laudable goals at one time. In a truly Gothic universe, there's no true exemption from moral accountability ... not even for self-proclaimed "inscrutable" DPs.

*casts Resurrection on thread*


I have one last question that I never even really thought about until today... why is the Demiplane of Dread part of the Ethereal Plane? Is it because you can pretty much shape anything you want there? (I am making reference to the Genesis spell from the Epic Level Handbook). If that is true, it would kinda make sense about demiliches conducting an experiment. Make your own controlled enviornment via the Genesis spell. And since you can't put grass or life there but have to import it, use the Mists to take care of it for you like a Plane Shift spell. Hmm... gonna have to think about this awhile. What do you guys think?

It could be that the demiplane is inside the ethereal plane merely because the alternatives would prove inhospitable. The elemental planes are right out and is not the astral plane infested with Githyanki and other creatures?

The Ethereal Plane is the realm of ghosts, of which Ravenloft has always had an abundance. What could be spookier than that, if spooky is indeed what the Dark Powers were aiming for when they created the Land?

I've theorized that the demiplane is actually built out of "phantom shifts" (i.e. chunks of the Ethereal which replicate regions of the Material Plane impregnated by powerful emotions) that the DPs have gathered together and rendered tangible. This would explain why there's a Barovia in Ravenloft, and another on the Material Plane: the DPs stole an Ethereal copy of Strahd's realm, not the real thing.

Rotipher wrote: I've theorized that the demiplane is actually built out of "phantom shifts" (i.e. chunks of the Ethereal which replicate regions of the Material Plane impregnated by powerful emotions) that the DPs have gathered together and rendered tangible. This would explain why there's a Barovia in Ravenloft, and another on the Material Plane: the DPs stole an Ethereal copy of Strahd's realm, not the real thing.

In other words, Ravenloft is a gigantic, ethereal Kinko's?

Rotipher wrote:The Ethereal Plane is the realm of ghosts, of which Ravenloft has always had an abundance. What could be spookier than that, if spooky is indeed what the Dark Powers were aiming for when they created the Land?

I've theorized that the demiplane is actually built out of "phantom shifts" (i.e. chunks of the Ethereal which replicate regions of the Material Plane impregnated by powerful emotions) that the DPs have gathered together and rendered tangible. This would explain why there's a Barovia in Ravenloft, and another on the Material Plane: the DPs stole an Ethereal copy of Strahd's realm, not the real thing.

Wow. That's pretty good! To an extent, it kind of goes along with my idea, and yet is altogether something new to think about.

Guardian of Twilight wrote:*casts Resurrection on thread*


I have one last question that I never even really thought about until today... why is the Demiplane of Dread part of the Ethereal Plane? Is it because you can pretty much shape anything you want there? (I am making reference to the Genesis spell from the Epic Level Handbook). If that is true, it would kinda make sense about demiliches conducting an experiment. Make your own controlled enviornment via the Genesis spell. And since you can't put grass or life there but have to import it, use the Mists to take care of it for you like a Plane Shift spell. Hmm... gonna have to think about this awhile. What do you guys think?

Simply, Ravenloft is in the Ethereal because thats where all demi-planes where in first Ed and second Ed.

I have never revealled who or what the Dark Powers are, nor shall I eve. Though I suspect many a plyer suspects that I may be among their number. Then again, I'm evil, which is something the DarkPowers are not, for they believe in balance, not that I'm saying they are Neutral aligned, they just are. Alignment does not work so well in RL, but it does to a degree, it's more moral that anything (yes), but evil is not what evil is in most D&D games, instead evil is as men do, just like our own world (though it goes somewhat beyond that). I have run evil a campaig or 2 in RL and they found that they do as much good as good aligned characters do.

The Dark Powers are what you make them, I just feel it's a mistake to reveal what you perceive them as, after that alot of the mystery is lost.

I have yet to decide what exactly the Dark Powers are, but I see them as some group of higher spirit entities (not quite deities, but above most sentient beings) and they are infalable all the same. But no one ever tell any future players of mine thins or I'll set Drusilla on you all!

*Stops making paper dollie chains

You called?

Mmmm... it's about time I had a chance to sample the clientelle around here again... Oh, I want THAT ONE FIRST!!!! heeheehee XD

They stand hidden behind a curtain of thick mist on the very edge of the world.

Ezra once did find them. She spoke, she pleaded, but they wouldn't hear.

I constantly throw conflicting hints about the "dark powers" at my players.

As I posted in another thread, some gods could be sitting at some kind of "council of darkness"...

Of course, loosers likes to believe in some greater powers wich becomes the universal scapegoat for their failing... That maybe all there is to know about those so called Dark Powers...

If you explain too much, you lose the horror factor. Throwing some information around can be useful, PCs will slowly build some sort of confidance around some belief and then you can shatter it all when you need to throw them further down the cliff of dread and despair.

For exemple, out of game I make the players believe that the land around them (formerly in FR) was probably taken out of the prime material plane and is now in RL and that from the exterior, people from outside this piece of land see a thick impenetrable mist, or maybe a great hole (soon to be filled by water and to become an inner sea).

At the end of the campaign, if they ever get out of RL, they will most likely be back in FR and nobody will acknoledge anything strange happening to the land. Maybe "this inner sea" was always there and there's no such thing like "daggerdale" you fools ! Maybe some people will even testify about seeing them going about their daily "out of adventure" activities, doing groceries, taking care of the house and so on !

THey will be sure they didn't dream it all. Everybody else will be the mad ones for sure... Yes they came back out of RL through the sanitarium magic gate but they are NOT REALLY MAD RIGHT ?

Will they really be out of RL or is this just another dark twist of faith thrown at them by "the dark scapegoats" ?



In my game, uncertain is the game, madness is the name.

I have an adventure that I am wanting to run for my characters, but I am uncertain as to when I will be able to do it, if ever. It is asylum related as well. There are going to be dream visions for about 3 levels and they will all be the same. I... really can't say much more because one of my players reads the board now and then. The dark powers won't really play a part in this technically, but Lord Balfour will.