Café de Nuit

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Oct 27, 2025 1:12 pm Him being a ghost is something appearing only in 5e

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

OK I forgot about that, everyone connected with Van Richten who dies goes there to hang around with Madam Radanavich.

But still since he was a vampire how did he become a ghost?

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 4:26 pm

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Oct 27, 2025 1:12 pm Him being a ghost is something appearing only in 5e

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

OK I forgot about that, everyone connected with Van Richten who dies goes there to hang around with Madam Radanavich.

But still since he was a vampire how did he become a ghost?

Why wouldn't he?
Where in the rule book does it say that an undead can't return as another undead?

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Oct 27, 2025 1:12 pm Him being a ghost is something appearing only in 5e

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

Yeah. I wanted to ask about that appearance. Does he have a character sheet there? Is there any further lore revealed about him?

Like, it's obviously very different than the VRGtR version, cause different monster design philosophy and a completely different story for his fate after death, but I'd like to compare.

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:39 am

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Oct 27, 2025 1:12 pm Him being a ghost is something appearing only in 5e

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

Yeah. I wanted to ask about that appearance. Does he have a character sheet there? Is there any further lore revealed about him?

All the stats provided: 4th magnitude ghost, Int 10, AL N, AC -3/2, Mv 9, hd 10, hp 54. THAC0 11, #at 1, Dmg Nil, SA Cause wounds, drain energy, SD spell immunity, ethereal, ML special, XP 10 000

Nothing more about him, other that: he begs VR for one last hug (before his is forced to attack his father). Tearfully ask his father's forgiveness. He offers VR another chance to destroy him, which prompts a madness check for the good doctor.

Joël of the FoS wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 1:16 pm

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:39 am

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

Yeah. I wanted to ask about that appearance. Does he have a character sheet there? Is there any further lore revealed about him?

He offers VR another chance to destroy him, which prompts a madness check for the good doctor.[/i]

Wow. They...
Whoever wrote Bleak House really did think 'How do I break my players' heart as badly as possible?'
Thanks for notifying me.

Joël of the FoS wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 1:16 pm

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:39 am

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

Yeah. I wanted to ask about that appearance. Does he have a character sheet there? Is there any further lore revealed about him?

He offers VR another chance to destroy him, which prompts a madness check for the good doctor.[/i]

Wow. They...
Whoever wrote Bleak House really did think 'How do I break my players' heart as badly as possible?'
Thanks for notifying me.

Well shouldn't be a rule about undead not being able to return as undead again, the only undead that is speculated to be the result of the death of another undead is the Crimson Death. As mentioned before some sages and other necrologists speculate that the death of a vampire can cause the birth of a crimson death.

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:33 am

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 4:26 pm

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 3:38 pm

Not entirely. He appears as a ghost in 2e's Bleak House.

OK I forgot about that, everyone connected with Van Richten who dies goes there to hang around with Madam Radanavich.

But still since he was a vampire how did he become a ghost?

Why wouldn't he?
Where in the rule book does it say that an undead can't return as another undead?

It's implied that most undead don't come back as another undead because the experience of the cessation of their animating force or curse or the trauma of destruction is so traumatic that their spirit, if still present, lets go of their place in the lands of the living to be punted into the Afterlife. Of course, some undead return to become another form of undead either because some remnant of themselves persist beyond their destruction, like when vampires become crimson deaths, or when they evolve, like when a lich becomes a demilich, or they get used as spare parts for some other abomination, like when a lich uses a captured rival's phylactery to construct a grisgol, or because their spirit is that strong enough to pull themselves back together, like how Azenwrath pulled himself back together as a big, angry pinata of death and vengeance despite having been recycled to death into a hat rack and several reams of copy paper.

Baron Von Stanton wrote: Wed Feb 11, 2026 9:56 pm

TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Tue Feb 10, 2026 4:33 am

Mephisto of the FoS wrote: Mon Feb 09, 2026 4:26 pm
OK I forgot about that, everyone connected with Van Richten who dies goes there to hang around with Madam Radanavich.

But still since he was a vampire how did he become a ghost?

Why wouldn't he?
Where in the rule book does it say that an undead can't return as another undead?

It's implied that most undead don't come back as another undead because the experience of the cessation of their animating force or curse or the trauma of destruction is so traumatic that their spirit, if still present, lets go of their place in the lands of the living to be punted into the Afterlife. Of course, some undead return to become another form of undead either because some remnant of themselves persist beyond their destruction, like when vampires become crimson deaths, or when they evolve, like when a lich becomes a demilich, or they get used as spare parts for some other abomination, like when a lich uses a captured rival's phylactery to construct a grisgol, or because their spirit is that strong enough to pull themselves back together, like how Azenwrath pulled himself back together as a big, angry pinata of death and vengeance despite having been recycled to death into a hat rack and several reams of copy paper.

'as a big, angry pinata of death and vengeance despite having been recycled to death into a hat rack and several reams of copy paper' I absolutely love the metaphors people here come up with.


Seriously though, I think I have a theory how Eresmus managed to return.

For 2/3e canon, I think we could simply say Madam Radanavich 'used' him. His shattered spirit didn't matter, because it was someone else's will that kept him in the lands of the living.

But for 5e canon, I have another theory.
Eresmus meant well when he asked his father to end his vampiric existence. He didn't want to risk hurting someone else like Baron Metus hurt him.
But...
Do you think he realised that in a way, he already had? Do you think it occured to him how twisted it is for a father to kill his own son, and how heartbreaking it would be for Rudolph to be forced to do it? Do you think he speculated how long it would take him to be able to live with himself after that?
I think not.
We teenagers are rarely aware of the sacrifices our parents do for us, especially if they're good ones.
But maybe it hit him at the last moment.
Maybe when the sun was already up and his body was starting to crumble, he looked at his father's face one last time and realised this was the face of a man who felt undead himself. Realised that while his own misery was about to end, Rudolph's was only beginning.
And at that moment Eresmus realised that no matter how broken he was, he had no right to escape this world by breaking someone else. He had to fix this, somehow. He had to return. It wasn't supposed to be possible, he wasn't supposed to have the mental strength for this. But Rudolph crossed The Core within a single night in attempt to save him, which wasn't supposed to be possible either. One impossibility for another, isn't it fair?