Café de Nuit

True, he's hardly a whirlwind of destruction. But then, the stats list this guy as a Leader, not a butt-kicker, so I guess this monster's been heavily repurposed for the new edition. He'll be setting spellcasters on fire to muck up their casting and moving himself and his underlings into key tactical positions (not to mention blowing them to bits in the enemy's face! ), rather than laying on the smackdown.

The new balor (assuming they're keeping it in the game) will probably be a lot less of a commander, and a LOT more destructive.

Well, he's still capable of severe damage. First of all, his Frenzy ability is a standard action, so he can technically use both the mace and tail attacks together. That's what, 1d12+11 and 1d6+11? And a successful tail attack lead to a bonus third attack. Plus, it seems as though they have effects that keep dealing damage after the initial blow, so several round of concentration on someone who keeps failing saves means a whole lot of cumulative damage (assuming that the bonus per round damage actually stacks).

Then there's the fact that his summoned goons count towards his encounter, in which case their ability to damage is actually considered part of the pit fiends total damage output. The longer he lasts, the more damage he can do.

Ornum wrote:And a successful tail attack lead to a bonus third attack.

Actually, I think that "third attack" is just their new way of saying that the tail is venomous. It's not a separate attempt to strike the opponent, it's just a saving throw against poison, but re-stated as an attack roll against a Fortitude score.

About the pit-fiend, I'm not really into planars and outsiders at all, never learned enough about them, but if the pit-fiend is a devil, and not a demon, then this less 'fightingness' might be in accordance with their new philosophy distinguishing these two: demons are the destructive kind, devils are the corrupting ones. So, I should expect to see more battle prowess on Demons than devils, somehow.

Alex

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:

Ornum wrote:And a successful tail attack lead to a bonus third attack.

Actually, I think that "third attack" is just their new way of saying that the tail is venomous. It's not a separate attempt to strike the opponent, it's just a saving throw against poison, but re-stated as an attack roll against a Fortitude score.

Yeah, that's right. It's an attack roll in that he actually gets to make a roll to see if the poison took hold for another 15 points of damage. Damage the character receives every round thereafter unless they can make a successful save. It's not a true physical attack, but is considered an attack nonetheless because an attack roll is required.

Really, he can take out an unprepared spellcaster pretty quick, with his main attacks being reflex and fortitude based and the whole teleportation trick.

Lamest pit fiend ever.

Only battle abilities, and boring at that; solo he doesn't do any real damage; and most important, where did they hide its ungodly Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledges and so on?

It's assumed to be a devil noble, not Just Another Miniature ...

Probably a fitting 26th level encounter, but outside of that, nothing, nothing at all! Does anyone at WotC still remember the sound of the word "fluff"? Have any of them played in a Planescape campaign, or were they too busy playing World of Warcraft?

Sorti wrote:Lamest pit fiend ever.

Only battle abilities, and boring at that; solo he doesn't do any real damage; and most important, where did they hide its ungodly Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledges and so on?

It's assumed to be a devil noble, not Just Another Miniature ...

Probably a fitting 26th level encounter, but outside of that, nothing, nothing at all! Does anyone at WotC still remember the sound of the word "fluff"? Have any of them played in a Planescape campaign, or were they too busy playing World of Warcraft?

Yeah, he's not much of a solo, but he's not meant to be, either. I think for 4e a balanced encounter assumes 5 monsters for a particular level (in this case, 26th). As an elite opponent, that means the pit fiend takes up 2 of those 5 slots. Also, it's pretty much a given that he will summon minions as listed.

Planescape or traditional D&D pit fiend he is not, but the remade version as presented fits well with what 4e is supposed to be. Honestly though, I won't play 4e for the planar stuff. I'm more interested in what's going on with the Realms and the 94 years that will have passed there. If I play 4e, it will be in the Realms, not the planes.

On a side note, somewhere on ENWorld is a thread that talks about what all the numbers mean, or at least what they are supposed to mean based on previews and what's been released so far (including Star Wars SAGA, which is similar is several regards).

The Realms are moving forward 94 years in time for next edition?

JinnTolser wrote:The Realms are moving forward 94 years in time for next edition?

Someone said this like, 20-30 posts ago!

Yeah. Forgotten Relams jumps 94 years into the future for 4e. Mystra is killed, the Spellplague comes, magic users go mad, and almost everything changes. Then, fast forward almost 100 years. The whole "points of light" concept will apply because many of the smaller places (and a few bigger ones) no longer exist because of what occurs during those years.

And some make a comeback. Excuse the spelling, but 4e heralds the return of the Netheril Empire and the return of life to the Anauroch Desert.

I look forward to seeing what else has happened.

LoL... Forgotten Realms go through an apolcalyptic phase? Not that bad IMO.

So when the PCs start playing there will be tales of "A century ago, there was a time of legend. When the City of Splendors stood, Queen Alustriel ruled over Silver marshes with kindness and magic was honed and tamed working miracles for the masses."

About Pit Fiendp: Well his ability to blow up allies is crappy... unless he has a host of lemures! I mean blowing up a 21st level monster to deal 20-25 damage is insane. Throwing in the melee 2000 lemures and then blowing them round by round with a grin as the PCs frantically try to get rid of as many as possible is ... you know, devilish.

Also the blow-'em-up is a good way to ensure loyalty from the rest of the devils. The Commander fails to take over that prime material continent? BOOOOM! Someone beneath the Devil wants to take his place the Baatezu way? BOOOOM!

But other than that, I fail to see how he's a corruptor. And I really think he should have spellcasting abilities. Give him the equivalent of a 18th level wizard with enchantment spells. Not much of a boost against 26th level chars and it adds flavor.
Come on, now. According to the text there are about 100 pit fiends in total! Are they really so weak?

If a pit fiend's able to blow up other devils at will, that might explain why these guys are the ones who ride herd on the rest of their kind for the archdevils. Somebody's gotta keep those diabolical underlings -- who are, after all, used to scheming -- from getting above themselves, and doing that job may keep them too occupied to personally go around corrupting piddly little mortals. They've got succubi and other specialists to do that job.

Regardless of Pit Fiends, I'm making new rules to "simplify" Third Edition.

On second thought, I might just make things moe complicated.

I might post them when I finish.

They've specifically said they won't be applying "points of light" to established settings. That's the 'default' world. Some places in the Realms will have points, other places... not so much.

alhoon wrote:LoL... Forgotten Realms go through an apolcalyptic phase? Not that bad IMO.

So when the PCs start playing there will be tales of "A century ago, there was a time of legend. When the City of Splendors stood, Queen Alustriel ruled over Silver marshes with kindness and magic was honed and tamed working miracles for the masses."

The most recent Drizzt book has previews. Waterdeep is still around, as is Cormyr. Sembia went boom, as did Thay and the surrounding countries. And one of the old seaside nations also went boom and has been populated by dragonborn.

alhoon wrote:But other than that, I fail to see how he's a corruptor. And I really think he should have spellcasting abilities. Give him the equivalent of a 18th level wizard with enchantment spells. Not much of a boost against 26th level chars and it adds flavor.

That's exactly what they wanted to avoid.
Currently he can do one or two or three cool things in combat. Give him spells and the DMs choice each round goes from 3 or 4 options to 15 to 20, easy.
The Pit Fiend is going to come out with 2-3 buddies then summon 4+, so the DM will suddenly be running 8+ bad guys. Having to pick from lengthy spells is crazy.
And then there's the question of what power level 18th level spells will be at level 26 or 27. It might be like dragons where they're a good fight for 10th level characters and can cast useless 1st and 2nd level spells. "Gee, should I full attack for five powerful attacks, use my breath weapon, or cast pyrotechnics?"

alhoon wrote:Come on, now. According to the text there are about 100 pit fiends in total! Are they really so weak?

They're generals. There doesn't need to be thousands.

Jester of the FoS wrote:

alhoon wrote:But other than that, I fail to see how he's a corruptor. And I really think he should have spellcasting abilities. Give him the equivalent of a 18th level wizard with enchantment spells. Not much of a boost against 26th level chars and it adds flavor.

That's exactly what they wanted to avoid.
Currently he can do one or two or three cool things in combat. Give him spells and the DMs choice each round goes from 3 or 4 options to 15 to 20, easy.
The Pit Fiend is going to come out with 2-3 buddies then summon 4+, so the DM will suddenly be running 8+ bad guys. Having to pick from lengthy spells is crazy.
And then there's the question of what power level 18th level spells will be at level 26 or 27. It might be like dragons where they're a good fight for 10th level characters and can cast useless 1st and 2nd level spells. "Gee, should I full attack for five powerful attacks, use my breath weapon, or cast pyrotechnics?"

My point exactly! Breath weapon or melee attack. The spells? If not cast before hand, then they're not useful, they don't bother the DM but They keep the flavor!
NOTE: Mage armor, shield before battle. +8 AC. Not useless at all.

Also a DM putting a pit fiend in the battle should be prepared for such an event. A pit fiend is not a random encounter, it is meeting one of the few lords of the devils. That's something that doesn't happen every session. The DM could very well put up a list with what the pitfiend will cast, when and under which conditions. Like: "If bob tries to smite his Lieutenant, the Pit fiend dominates bob". Yes, it takes some time. I think its worth it.

Jester of the FoS wrote:

alhoon wrote:Come on, now. According to the text there are about 100 pit fiends in total! Are they really so weak?

They're generals. There doesn't need to be thousands.

Of course not! But they need to be tough in combat. Not too tough since they're generals but at least keep their own in battle. As far as I can see, their only usefullness in battle is to position allies, give a sting and have many hp. More or less: Like huge, smart, evil bee queens.

And they need to be spellcasters so when someone makes a pact with them, an epic diabolist of some sort, the most powerful lich in the world etc etc to be able to give them something in return.