Café de Nuit

cure wrote:Does this accurately summarise what we know?

Pretty much.

Malocchio's strength over and above that of other children is presumably tied to having at least one and perhaps two Darklords as ancestors or alternatively one Darklord and the GC twice.

Not exactly. It connects back to the mother, both in power and in other factors documented as far back as Forbidden Lore, if not the original Black Box.

Lucius wrote:By the way, what was Azalin trying to do at all? And how was he going to use the 13 (and/or the Ultimate) Dukkars to accomplish that?

I'll probably let this out by Halloween, if John and the other Kargatane don't object, but the clues to figure out what Azalin's after are all there in R3E. The how and the details are a bit more esoteric.

cure wrote:Does this accurately summarise what we know?

Code: Select all

Vigo Drakov  fiendish  Falkovnia    1/2 Vistana            Vistana?/Giorgio?
									   		 Isabella Aderre?

Malocchio  6 fingers  Invidia 	  1/4 Vistana Darklord    1/2 Vistana Isabella Aderre
												  Gabrielle Aderre		 /Darklord Vlad Drakov?

Whoa, I was all set to correct you here, saying that Isabella was a Full Vistana, but I dug through the book and you're right. While The Evil Eye doesn't mention it, calling Isabella only a "gypsy", Gaz II says she was 1/2. I thought it might be a mistake, but it goes all the way back to the black box. There it says that Isabella herself was of mixed descent and cast out on her own because if it.

So Mallochio is only 1/8 Vistani! (not 1/4 as I said upthread.) And your supposition above about Isabella being Vigo's mom fits too! Vigo was born in 705, Gabby in 710. Both born to half-vistani concubine-slaves of Drakov. Could it be that the Caller had Dukkars with both mother and daughter? Ick. (Even ickier, did the GC think Gabby was his own daughter perhaps? Trying to inbreed the Fiendish blood to concentrate it? I hope not...)

Which leads to a big hole in the logic of the Vistani. If a 1/8 vistani could be the Dukkar that destroys the vistani, shouldn't they keep better track of all the part-vistani folks running around? It's not enough to kill full vistani boys with the Sight. They really ought to be checking 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 vistani boys too... no? So why cast the half-breeds out as though they were giorgios? They really ought to accept them as vistani if only to keep tabs on them.

DilisnyaRevenge wrote:If the closest that the GC came to making the Ultimate was Malocchio who is the offspring of a half-Vistani darklord. Therefore, I think it stands to reason that the only way to be more powerful than that, the child would have to be the offspring of a full-Vistani darklord.

The only one of these that I am aware of is Inza.

I think it's a pretty good guess. (Although as just noted above, Gabby is only 1/4 vistani. So it would seem you could get a stronger Dukkar with a 1/2 or Full vistani darklord. But obviously, full would be better, and that's conveniently what we've got in Inza. (As far as I can tell. Has her father ever been documented? Her Gaz4 stats say "vistana" not "half-vistana".)

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: Could it be that the Caller had Dukkars with both mother and daughter? Ick.

He did. Which means that Vigo Drakov and Malocchio Aderre are half-brothers by actual paternity, uncle and nephew by maternity, and uncle and nephew by legal paternity.
And there's a reason the Caller chose those two mothers. . . (Come on, how much more obvious do I have to be? )

Which leads to a big hole in the logic of the Vistani. If a 1/8 vistani could be the Dukkar that destroys the vistani, shouldn't they keep better track of all the part-vistani folks running around?

Just a side note: "Ultimate Dukkar" is my term, not the Kargatane's--it's just my shorthand for "GC child powerful enough to get him out of Ravenloft." I don't know what such a child would mean for the Vistani.

A reason for the Gentleman Caller to select those two mothers ... Which tribe was Gabrielle's mother related to? If it was the Zarovan, might Gabrielle be linked to madam Eva? Mixing Zarovan blood with fiendish essence could cause some very serious power to be formed ...

Rock wrote:A reason for the Gentleman Caller to select those two mothers ... Which tribe was Gabrielle's mother related to? If it was the Zarovan, might Gabrielle be linked to madam Eva? Mixing Zarovan blood with fiendish essence could cause some very serious power to be formed ...

Maybe instead of looking backwards in Gabrielle's bloodline, we should be looking forward. If Isabella Aderre created a fairly powerful "dukkar" and Gabrielle Aderre created a very powerful "dukkar", then Lucita Aderre would create an even more powerful "dukkar"?

And since she is still very young (too young for the GC's needs) he would have to wait a few years to make his attempt... Which might put it in line for one of the many events in the Time of Unparalleled Darkness?

Rock wrote:A reason for the Gentleman Caller to select those two mothers ... Which tribe was Gabrielle's mother related to? If it was the Zarovan, might Gabrielle be linked to madam Eva? Mixing Zarovan blood with fiendish essence could cause some very serious power to be formed ...

Yup, she is a direct descendant of Eva, according to one or more of the books I looked at this morning. I think that's exactly what Matthew is getting at..

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Rock wrote:A reason for the Gentleman Caller to select those two mothers ... Which tribe was Gabrielle's mother related to? If it was the Zarovan, might Gabrielle be linked to madam Eva? Mixing Zarovan blood with fiendish essence could cause some very serious power to be formed ...

Yup, she is a direct descendant of Eva, according to one or more of the books I looked at this morning. I think that's exactly what Matthew is getting at..

Okay, okay ...

So Vigo Drakov is (Zarovan x unknown) x Fiend.

Gabrielle is ((Zarovan x unknown) x unknown) x Darklord.

And Malocchio is (((Zarovan x unknown) x unknown) x Darklord) x Fiend.

What gets even worse than that? Perhaps if the first and/or second unknowns become the Fiend ...? Oh. Is Gabrielle's daughter ...? No, she couldn't be of childbearing age yet, right? Yet ... But is it absolutely certain that she wasn't sired by the Gentleman Caller as well?

Rock wrote:Is Gabrielle's daughter ...? No, she couldn't be of childbearing age yet, right? Yet ... But is it absolutely certain that she wasn't sired by the Gentleman Caller as well?

To the best of my recollection, Lucita is the daughter of either Matton Blachard or Andonk Szeriera (even Gabrielle doesn't know which one).

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Rock wrote:A reason for the Gentleman Caller to select those two mothers ... Which tribe was Gabrielle's mother related to? If it was the Zarovan, might Gabrielle be linked to madam Eva? Mixing Zarovan blood with fiendish essence could cause some very serious power to be formed ...

Yup, she is a direct descendant of Eva, according to one or more of the books I looked at this morning. I think that's exactly what Matthew is getting at..

You are correct. From out of the Kargatane files . . .

John W. Mangrum wrote: We hadn't worked out all the kinks, but the basic plan was that he [the Gentleman Caller] was trying to breed his way out of the demiplane. His first attempt, Malocchio, was also the closest he'd came to success, since the mother was herself so powerful. However, since Malocchio ended up such a disappointment, he'd set his eyes on the only woman in the demiplane who could produce a demonspawn guaranteed to escape Ravenloft: Madame Eva. (It's not *that* icky -- taking into account that Eva is "as old as she feels," while under the GC's sway she would revert to a youthful, vibrant appearance.)

The problem with that plan is that Eva didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, so the GC is stymied as to how to get at her.

LMAO! She was going to be my third guess... No really!

The age thing was throwing me off.

Matthew L. Martin wrote:I'll probably let this out by Halloween, if John and the other Kargatane don't object, but the clues to figure out what Azalin's after are all there in R3E. The how and the details are a bit more esoteric.

I'm having fun tossing ideas around so I am going to take a stab at this one too...

From Azalin's lab notes in R3E it seems clear to me that he is no longer trying to escape, but instead trying to end his darklord curse, whereby he can gain new knowledge and therefore get his son Irik back.

Of course, when he accomplishes this, it would likely end all darklord curses (e.g. Vlad could actually win a war and would crush Borca, etc.) Chaos ensues.

As to how he would use the 13 dukkars to accomplish this, I have no idea.

I had a theory Azalin was going to try to destroy the Dark Powers.

The how, who, whens, and wheres of this were pretty much a blank slate, though.

DilisnyaRevenge wrote: I'm having fun tossing ideas around so I am going to take a stab at this one too...

From Azalin's lab notes in R3E it seems clear to me that he is no longer trying to escape, but instead trying to end his darklord curse, whereby he can gain new knowledge and therefore get his son Irik back.

Yes.

Of course, when he accomplishes this, it would likely end all darklord curses (e.g. Vlad could actually win a war and would crush Borca, etc.) Chaos ensues.

No. Remember, John said that while the fallout from Azalin's plan would have a major impact on some parts of the Core, others wouldn't notice at all.

As to how he would use the 13 dukkars to accomplish this, I have no idea.

That one I didn't guess either. I think I'm going to hold out a little bit longer on that one . . .