Café de Nuit

Personally I don't think that it has to be an exact translation. Borca and Indivia can have Italian elements without being, "Ravenloft Italy."

SpiritCaller wrote:Therein lies the problem for me. Falkovnia is NOT a Germanic culture IMC.

While it certainly does harkon back to the bad old days of Nazi Germany, it would be more accurate to say that Falkovnia is based on virtually every military dictatorship in history. Racism, genocide, and oppression aren't inventions of the last century; they've been around since humans first showed up. More specifically, it's mean to resemble the reign of Vlad "Tepes" Dracul aka Vlad the Impaler. The use of a Germanic-based language is probably the only intended link to Hitler.

Vlad Drakov was based on Vlad Dracul--the real Dracula. He was infamous as a tyrant and a sadist who liked to watch his victims die by impaling. The creators must have been trying to point us in the right direction. Vlad is the first name of both men, Dracul vs. Drakov, it's not hard to see how those two could be related, and Drakov eats his dinner as he watches his victims die just as Dracul did. Strahd is "Dracula" a la Bram Stoker; Vlad Drakov is the real Dracula.

DocBeard wrote:Personally I don't think that it has to be an exact translation. Borca and Indivia can have Italian elements without being, "Ravenloft Italy."

Not exact translations, but rough analogues, are good for me. Basing a domain off of a real world culture/nation can create a certain resonance and add versimilitude, but I wouldn't bother making it very close. Barovia is obviously inspired by Wallachia and Transylvania- but it's the Transylvania of literature and old movies, as much or more than any real country.

That being said, I would support a broader range of nations and cultures being represented in Ravenloft, yes. Not every nation needs a counterpart domain, by any means. Some do, though, because they are classic settings for the Gothic and leaving them out just seems wrong to me:

Italy
Spain
The Antebellum South

My Arkandale is based on Wyatt's Old South reworking of the domain, so I've got a solid homage to the Southern Gothic tradition. Italy...well, my version of Invidia is more or less Italiante [with various influences mixing there because of the river travel and commerce]. Ah, but what about Spain?

I'm not sure how I feel about Tepest as a Celtic...possibly Irish, inspired domain. I had always thought of it more like the Grimm's Fairy Tales brought to life, the Black Forest with evil critters hiding among the trees. Toss in some crazy, axe wielding, witch burning peasants, and you're in business.

Ail wrote:I'm rather curious on that Portuguese domain, SpiritCaller, me being Portuguese and all I just never looked at Portugal under a gothic lens, although arguably our best prose comes from the XIX century. But I don't know, what would you expect to see in a 'Portuguese' domain, besides the names?

Well, that's the thing; you would be far more qualified to write a Portuguese domain than I would. I always find other cultures and places fascinating -- everything from their food to clothes to architecture to folklore -- but the truth is that I definitely do not know enough about Portugal to write a domain based on it.

Sorti wrote:Actually Invidia reminds me a lot of Italy under fascism. In my campaign I made than explicit by calling Malocchio the "Duce" of Invidia (I think it's canon actually; a forest called "Padure Duce" is translated as "Forest of the Lord", so...).

In that way, it does me too. But it's otherwise lacking in Italian culture, resembling a Eastern European/Slavic country. That was what made Slovenia spring to mind for me.

Sorti wrote:

SpiritCaller wrote:So, I guess I'm saying that what we really need is a more Italian-style domain, either by adding a new domain or revamping Invidia.

Well I know some people is working on that in the Ravenloft Reanimated contest

Really? I'm greatly looking forward to it!

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Other Italy homages in Borca would have to include the Dilisyna family's mafia overtones and the location of the Ezran "Vatican" in Levkarest.

In Gaz 4, a lot of names sounded Italian too. For instance, one of the names of the original Borca was "Borjia". The Borcan attitude towards ghosts and spirits reminds me of the Italians as well.

ewancummins wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about Tepest as a Celtic...possibly Irish, inspired domain. I had always thought of it more like the Grimm's Fairy Tales brought to life, the Black Forest with evil critters hiding among the trees. Toss in some crazy, axe wielding, witch burning peasants, and you're in business.

Tepest is NOT Irish. The hags of Irish folklore are quite different than the English-style hags of Tepest. Irish myth also has no goblins and the Irish wouldn't consider elves unholy creatures of pure evil; dangerous, yes, demonic, no. The description of everything else about Tepest screams medieval England, not Ireland.

Being of Irish descent myself, I actually find this slightly offensive. It's kind of like what I was reading in this forum about the way TSR grossly mishandled its Chinese and Japanese domains. Tossing a few redheads among the Tepestani isn't enough to make them Irish, and to an Irish person, it's a bit racist to think so. Of course, one could always actually change Tepest to be more like Ireland.

SpiritCaller wrote:

ewancummins wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about Tepest as a Celtic...possibly Irish, inspired domain. I had always thought of it more like the Grimm's Fairy Tales brought to life, the Black Forest with evil critters hiding among the trees. Toss in some crazy, axe wielding, witch burning peasants, and you're in business.

Tepest is NOT Irish. The hags of Irish folklore are quite different than the English-style hags of Tepest. Irish myth also has no goblins and the Irish wouldn't consider elves unholy creatures of pure evil; dangerous, yes, demonic, no. The description of everything else about Tepest screams medieval England, not Ireland.

Being of Irish descent myself, I actually find this slightly offensive. It's kind of like what I was reading in this forum about the way TSR grossly mishandled its Chinese and Japanese domains. Tossing a few redheads among the Tepestani isn't enough to make them Irish, and to an Irish person, it's a bit racist to think so. Of course, one could always actually change Tepest to be more like Ireland.

Seconded, going through the TSR stuff, while entertaining makes me wince a little. Besides, I saw Tepest as very much inspired by the Black Forest tales of the Grimms. In fact, Terry Gilliam's The Brothers Grimm would be suitable for the look and tone of Tepest...nasty thick forest that moves a lot more than it should...evil fey lurking in the dark...

In many ways, it creates quite a sympathetic atmosphere for the Tepestani Inquisition and then bam! You run something like Servants of Darkness...

Ravenloft DMing 101 aside...I found that Forlorn was pretty weak in that respect too. Gaelic domains are pretty weak all around Ravenloft (oh and I'm aware only a few of those language groups are related), I mean even when they take a 'Ban Sidhe' as a darklord, they mess it up (I find Keening utterly pointless). I read the Castles Forlorn from end to end; and found it bears no resemblance to any Scotland I ever went to nor read about (although this is a discussion for silly names not issues with the setting which is more RLR's department).

Actually, I submit Forlorn as a silly name. It's too obvious...anyone with Scots Gaelic have a better suggestion?

Lucien Doomdark wrote:Actually, I submit Forlorn as a silly name. It's too obvious...anyone with Scots Gaelic have a better suggestion?

I've always liked "The Forlorn Highlands," which uses Forlorn as the adjective it was meant to be, rather than an awkward noun. You could also use the place's original name of Forfar. (Also note that the naming is Welsh, not Scottish, Ap__ is the Welsh version of the Scottish Mac__)

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Lucien Doomdark wrote:Actually, I submit Forlorn as a silly name. It's too obvious...anyone with Scots Gaelic have a better suggestion?

I've always liked "The Forlorn Highlands," which uses Forlorn as the adjective it was meant to be, rather than an awkward noun. You could also use the place's original name of Forfar. (Also note that the naming is Welsh, not Scottish, Ap__ is the Welsh version of the Scottish Mac__)

Yes, I noticed the Ap- right away. That's certainly Welsh! Forlorn also has some Scottish elements, though. It's a Celtic mish-mash.

I find Forlorn to be a limited [but still cool] domain because there are only goblyns and ghosts dwelling in it, pretty much. It works best when treated as a large pocket domain, IMO.

As for Gonzoron's suggestion of ''the Forlorn Highlands'' I like that MUCH better than plain old Forlorn.

Keening needs a new name, too.

The Keening Peaks?

The Keening Tors?

Just 'Mount Lament' works.

ewancummins wrote:I agree with others who have voiced a dislike of the Nazification of Falkovnia. It's King Vlad, not KFVD, darn it!

After looking up some information on old Germanic knights, I'm really surprised that "Fuhrer" was used, seeing as it only means "leader" or "guide," definitely way too weak for someone as powerful as Drakov.

I might use Margrave (or Markgraf) as a more appropriate title when I use Drakov in the future. As per the Wikipedia link, "Markgraf" means "March Count" and was used purely for the German border territories, the ones that were nearly constantly in warfare and could expand due to conquest of neighboring lands. It seems like the title "Margrave" would fit Drakov's personality well.

Of course, "Margrave Drakov" doesn't flow off the lips terribly well... but "Margrave Vlad Drakov the First" does, thankfully.

Lord Cyclohexane wrote:

ewancummins wrote:I agree with others who have voiced a dislike of the Nazification of Falkovnia. It's King Vlad, not KFVD, darn it!

After looking up some information on old Germanic knights, I'm really surprised that "Fuhrer" was used, seeing as it only means "leader" or "guide," definitely way too weak for someone as powerful as Drakov.

I might use Margrave (or Markgraf) as a more appropriate title when I use Drakov in the future. As per the Wikipedia link, "Markgraf" means "March Count" and was used purely for the German border territories, the ones that were nearly constantly in warfare and could expand due to conquest of neighboring lands. It seems like the title "Margrave" would fit Drakov's personality well.

Of course, "Margrave Drakov" doesn't flow off the lips terribly well... but "Margrave Vlad Drakov the First" does, thankfully.

Hi,

I guess I can add something to this too, merely as curiosity. Führer being only leader is not that bad. After all, the latin term 'Dux' means the same, and was the term used by Mussolini, only italianized it into 'Duce'.
Of course, in my opinion, 'Dux Bellorum' sounds better, and it means, literally, 'Leader of wars' or simply 'War lord'.

As for the Margrave, I feel it is really akin to the title Marquis in other languages. Literally, one who defends a march (Marca in Portuguese and Spanish, at least), which I think is frontier land as you said.

Of course, for Drakov, you could search for the German word for 'Leader of Armies'. I don't know German, so I can not help you, but I remember that the Nazi army had many long and impressive titles, like Obersturmbahnführer, if that is correctly spelled .

Perhaps Leader of Armies would be impressive too? Or Leader of the State, something like Reichsführer, probably.

Well, just ideas, really.

Alex

Given Drakov's delusions of grandeur, along with the admitted fact that Falkovnia is a big and powerful domain, Emperor might not be entirely out of place.

What's wrong with plain ol'"King", for that matter?

Or something military...I kinda like "Generalissimo", although of course that is the wrong cultural signifier.

DocBeard wrote:What's wrong with plain ol'"King", for that matter?

Yup, that's what I use. fuhrer may be perfectly appropriate thinking of it's original meaning, but it's just become too culturally loaded with significance for me to touch. I mean, "Sieg Heil" just means something like "hail victory" but saying it will get you a few years in prison in modern Germany. King Vlad Drakov works fine for me.