Café de Nuit

ewancummins wrote:Eternal winter can be just that: eternal winter. It's almost timeless.

The land is cold and snowy all the time. Fish and wild game replenish very quickly-- to normal levels for winter.
Trees cut down often seem to regrow while nobody's looking. But new-planted trees rarely, if ever, flourish.

The only reliable measure of the passage of the years are the growth and aging of human beings. But given the narrow margin for life in the settlements the population never expands much before starvation threatens.
Couples marry late and have few children.

If you are prepared to go really dark,

VIEW CONTENT:

there may be a barbaric practice of infanticide by exposure. The local people won't talk about it with outsiders. It's too shameful. But if there are too many mouths to feed...

Obviously since that is canon. However I don't like it, the DPs would have to be to blatantly involved for my taste. I like them to be more subtle than that .

brilliantlight wrote:

ewancummins wrote:Eternal winter can be just that: eternal winter. It's almost timeless.

The land is cold and snowy all the time. Fish and wild game replenish very quickly-- to normal levels for winter.
Trees cut down often seem to regrow while nobody's looking. But new-planted trees rarely, if ever, flourish.

The only reliable measure of the passage of the years are the growth and aging of human beings. But given the narrow margin for life in the settlements the population never expands much before starvation threatens.
Couples marry late and have few children.

If you are prepared to go really dark,

VIEW CONTENT:

there may be a barbaric practice of infanticide by exposure. The local people won't talk about it with outsiders. It's too shameful. But if there are too many mouths to feed...

Obviously since that is canon. However I don't like it, the DPs would have to be to blatantly involved for my taste. I like them to be more subtle than that .

Indeed!

If you go with 'eternal winter', then the land is obviously caught in a curse. It's supernatural.
Vorostokov always struck me as a 'fairy tale' sort of domain. It's more magical than a number of other domains, not because it has many spellcasters (in published versions, it really doesn't), but because of the curse of eternal winter.


Your version certainly carries a more naturalistic feeling. I think your new curse for the Darklord makes good sense.
Gregor Rabbit-slayer




Why can't the son become a loup du noir? Is it some kind of protection laid on him by his mother? A wise-woman?

brilliantlight wrote:

Dark Angel wrote:

brilliantlight wrote: Seawater, there is a fairly easy path through the mountains (Obviously made up) that is mostly hills and valleys salt traders can get through that isn't shown on the map as it is too large scale.

Ok. I don't recall such access in the original maps (because it wasn't there), but makes more sense than salt mining. Wouldn't the locals then have reason to have a seaside settlement to pull fish, seals, or even whales from the water? Or at least long term hunting trips to get the same? Can you tell I play with very nit-picky players who would poke holes in any reasonable inconsistencies in my game?

Shrug, they probably do. Since I am not starving them there is no reason not to have fish on the diet. Fishing is considered less prestigious though as it is considered "less manly". It is also more practical in summer to hunt as it game closer by the settlements and gives fur to sell as well as food. Also I picture the beach as being fairly small, a few hundred yards. Still, there would be number of fishermen to help supplement the diet, particularly in winter.

Maybe the Border Mists roll in and out over the open sea? Fishermen keep a close eye on the fog-line, lest they and their vessels be caught by incoming Mists.

If you really want to go grim,

Brandi wrote:If you really want to go grim,

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ramp it up to euthanasia in general. The very aged and frail, the terminally ill or badly injured. Sure, healing magics help with the latter, but sometimes only so far...

Yep
And, then...

Given Mircea's interest in alchemical experiments on people as he seeks a way to save himself from his transformation, there might be a very hush-hush 'people trade', too; those villages unwilling to make meals of their 'unproductive' citizens could be selling them and strangers they can be reasonably certain won't be missed up the pass to Sanguinea in return for supplies they can't harvest or make for themselves in Vorostokov -- like alchemical supplies which make life easier, and medicines to treat disease, or mass-produced meat and vegetables.

ewancummins wrote:
If you are prepared to go really dark,

VIEW CONTENT:

there may be a barbaric practice of infanticide by exposure. The local people won't talk about it with outsiders. It's too shameful. But if there are too many mouths to feed...

There's a potential issue here if you're wanting to add this grim reality in that the Ravenloft setting mechanics don't handle this sort of situation very well.

Rock wrote:Given Mircea's interest in alchemical experiments on people as he seeks a way to save himself from his transformation, there might be a very hush-hush 'people trade', too; those villages unwilling to make meals of their 'unproductive' citizens could be selling them and strangers they can be reasonably certain won't be missed up the pass to Sanguinea in return for supplies they can't harvest or make for themselves in Vorostokov -- like alchemical supplies which make life easier, and medicines to treat disease, or mass-produced meat and vegetables.

VIEW CONTENT:

Actually alchemically-produced 'food items' created by Mircea; while it looks, smells and tastes like proper food, it's alchemical slop mixed with a solution meant to make those who eat it receptive to his will. Yes, like Von Kharkov is doing with his cannery, I know. But a good idea is a good idea.

A people trade may be an effective way of getting around the problem posed above, especially if it's couched in an (unspoken) community consensus sort of framework or "well the place they're going away to isn't as bad as the other alternatives" sort of deal.

RE Mechanics and a grim custom:

The Lesser Evil wrote:

ewancummins wrote:
If you are prepared to go really dark,

VIEW CONTENT:

there may be a barbaric practice of infanticide by exposure. The local people won't talk about it with outsiders. It's too shameful. But if there are too many mouths to feed...

There's a potential issue here if you're wanting to add this grim reality in that the Ravenloft setting mechanics don't handle this sort of situation very well.

VIEW CONTENT:

If you're including this, you may need to address the "murder of an Innocent being an act of Ultimate Darkness" clause or at least figure out how the society handles the transformations of a number of its populace due to failed Powers checks. The potential for ostracism due to deformity etc. as markers/reminders of wrongdoing would mean death, so there would need to be a system in place for society to handle that.

Rock wrote:Given Mircea's interest in alchemical experiments on people as he seeks a way to save himself from his transformation, there might be a very hush-hush 'people trade', too; those villages unwilling to make meals of their 'unproductive' citizens could be selling them and strangers they can be reasonably certain won't be missed up the pass to Sanguinea in return for supplies they can't harvest or make for themselves in Vorostokov -- like alchemical supplies which make life easier, and medicines to treat disease, or mass-produced meat and vegetables.

VIEW CONTENT:

Actually alchemically-produced 'food items' created by Mircea; while it looks, smells and tastes like proper food, it's alchemical slop mixed with a solution meant to make those who eat it receptive to his will. Yes, like Von Kharkov is doing with his cannery, I know. But a good idea is a good idea.

A people trade may be an effective way of getting around the problem posed above, especially if it's couched in an (unspoken) community consensus sort of framework or "well the place they're going away to isn't as bad as the other alternatives" sort of deal.

It could even be a solemn custom, not unlike how Inuit too old to hunt and work would wander out into the wilderness to die alone, rather than be a drain on their families' resources.

"We'll miss you, grandad, and we would never force you to leave, but bless you for going and getting us those vital supplies we need. Bless you. We'll never forget you."

People trade indeed.
Cool idea.



Maybe the elderly just walk into the Border Mists?

'' Half my teeth are gone. And I need a stick to walk. It's my time, Mischa, so don't mourn for me. I'm going now to join our ancestors in the Endless Mists, to wait for the end of winter, when the gods will renew the land and send us all back to new flesh.''

Ravenloft natives usually fear the Mists, but in this case, going into the Mists is essentially accepting death and the transition to another state of being. I imagine most Vorostokov people would avoid the Mists under other circumstances. Mists= where you go when it's time to die. Do you want to die? No? Then stay away.

And then 'sending the elderly up the pass' instead would be considered a shameful act, the highest possible disrespect for an elder's lifetime of providing for the community.
Vorostokov people might still do it, and some elders might actually volunteer if their towns were starving, but their survivors would not discuss it even among themselves and would be as ashamed for it - and using Mircea's payment - as they would be for eating Zolnik's "long pork".
That works pretty well!

ewancummins wrote:People trade indeed.
Cool idea.



Maybe the elderly just walk into the Border Mists?

'' Half my teeth are gone. And I need a stick to walk. It's my time, Mischa, so don't mourn for me. I'm going now to join our ancestors in the Endless Mists, to wait for the end of winter, when the gods will renew the land and send us all back to new flesh.''

Ravenloft natives usually fear the Mists, but in this case, going into the Mists is essentially accepting death and the transition to another state of being. I imagine most Vorostokov people would avoid the Mists under other circumstances. Mists= where you go when it's time to die. Do you want to die? No? Then stay away.

Reminds me a bit of the Wanderers (Dungeons and Dragons GAZ 13 - The Shadow Elves, p.13), only darker (I'm biased towards RL's themes)...nice.

ewancummins wrote:
Why can't the son become a loup du noir? Is it some kind of protection laid on him by his mother? A wise-woman?

A protective spell by a wise-woman laid on the kid shortly after he was born.

"

Dark Angel wrote: Seawater, there is a fairly easy path through the mountains (Obviously made up) that is mostly hills and valleys salt traders can get through that isn't shown on the map as it is too large scale.

ch access in the original maps (because it wasn't there), but makes more sense than salt mining. Wouldn't the locals then have reason to have a seaside settlement to pull fish, seals, or even whales from the water? Or at least long term hunting trips to get the same? Can you tell I play with very nit-picky players who would poke holes in any reasonable inconsistencies in my game?

Maybe the Border Mists roll in and out over the open sea? Fishermen keep a close eye on the fog-line, lest they and their vessels be caught by incoming Mists.[/quote]
Too supernatural again for my taste, they simply fish. No problem with that in my domain as hunger isn't really an issue. They also trade fur for food.