Café de Nuit

As much as I like the Ravenloft setting, I have noticed that a fair amount of character and place names are really silly for anyone who has studied French, German, or Russian. Although standard D&D fantasy settings have random character and place names, they generally aren't based on real world languages. However, Ravenloft uses a lot of French, German, and Russian sounding names to evoke a gothic feel. The problem is that the names often seem mangled or downright silly to anyone with any knowledge of a language.

For example, the Darklord of G'Henna is Yagno Petrovna. However, Petrovna is a female Patronymic ('daughter of Peter'). A man would be Petrovich. Therefore, when I GM, I'll have the character named Petrovich.

Another very egregious example is the Japanese inspired domain of Rokushima Taiyoo. We have a dark lord named Haki Shinpi which is a very bad pseudo-Japanese name. Moreover, the four islands are named Beikoku, Eikoku, Chugoku, and Roshiya which are 'America', 'England', 'China', and 'Russia'. If I ever have the party go there,I'll have to think of changing the names.

Do you ever find certain names silly? Have you ever changed any for your campaign?

I posted this awhile back. Here's a summary:

Lamordia: Nortenmark (pseudo-Germanic "northern reach", hinting at a Falkovnian-invasion history)
Mordent: Cosabel (pseudo-French "côte sable" - black coasts)
Dementlieu: Maresotes (marées hautes - high tides, in honor of the many lakes there)
Richemulot: Praquadie (par arcadie - like Arcadia)
Darkon: unchanged, but etymology derives from Darcalus Conclave
Invidia: Întradevâr (pseudo-Romanian for "in truth")

These are just for my own personal use. Feel free to borrow whatever you like and leave what you don't.

The silliness was intentional. Ravenloft has a history of puns going all the way back to the first edition module. It's a way of providing some relief of tension to the players without making the comedy in-universe.

previous thread on the topic...
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... f=1&t=6284

To be honest, I always thought that "Richemulot" was a stupid name.

I always took it as cultural nicknames for the domains. For some of them it's the only way my players wouldn't dig deeper and go "Wtf why would we seriously ever go to a place in an obviously haunted land called Teufeldorf?"

Bluebomber4evr wrote:The silliness was intentional. Ravenloft has a history of puns going all the way back to the first edition module.

The majority of the crypt puns were removed in the Return to Castle Ravenloft adventure for 3rd ed., probably for stylistic reasons.

I don't have much use for the 1st Ed puns, whether they were intentional or not. I've renamed vast swathes of the Core to help with suspension of disbelief. I just think it makes it easier to keep the campaign setting holistic.

HuManBing wrote:

Bluebomber4evr wrote:The silliness was intentional. Ravenloft has a history of puns going all the way back to the first edition module.

The majority of the crypt puns were removed in the Return to Castle Ravenloft adventure for 3rd ed., probably for stylistic reasons.

I don't have much use for the 1st Ed puns, whether they were intentional or not. I've renamed vast swathes of the Core to help with suspension of disbelief. I just think it makes it easier to keep the campaign setting holistic.

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is also terrible and a downgrade from the original, like the "Special Editions" of Star Wars, only worse.

I DM on a Neverwinter Nights server based on Ravenloft and many of our players are international and multi-lingual and none of them complain about the pun names. It just never comes up.

As for suspension of disbelief, you pretty much have to check that at the door when it comes to fantasy settings anyway, don't you? It seems odd to me that you can accept magic, undead, werewolves, demiplanes and so on, but a pun takes all that away. To each their own and "your mileage may vary" of course, but in my experience, it's never been disruptive.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to rile you up or troll you. Just sharing my own experiences with the subject.

I won't make any more posts in this thread. I'm really sorry if I came off rude or anything.

MODERATOR NOTE: HuManBing, I have deleted your post, as you half-anticipated. For the record: Telling someone "your post is not helpful" is also not helpful. It's easy enough to scroll past a comment you don't find helpful, or if you feel it derails the thread or somehow stops the momentum, report it to a moderator.

No problem. I'll see if I can outline a few points in the Rules forum, then.

While my group is not linguistically diverse (we do speak a smattering of other languages from schooling and another who grew up in a Korean-speaking household), I have yet to encounter the "These are nonsensical names, places, etc". I do strive to maintain the 'foreignness' of the domains. My group began in Barovia (a domain I ran to death in the 90s) and they were familiar with it and what was going on. When they traveled to nearby Borca, they were experiencing it as if it was a different land (and it was). I used an online translator to create names for places, phrases, and people's surnames. I had a large map of Levkarest and made a duplicate for the players with the quarters labeled and the street names on it. All of it was in French (the language basis for Borcan). The names were simple translations of what they were (main street, butcher's row, etc). I did the same for businesses as well.

Taking a page from HuManBing, his 'new' name for Lamordia is translated from the phrase 'Northern Reach' (I believe, not 100%). Many places in our world are direct translations (South Africa, Côte d'Ivoire, United States of America, The United Kingdom, etc are not great examples (but are still examples)) from what they are into the native tongues of the namers. It gives the setting weight and the silliness decreases. But that doesn't sound like the problem as much as every domain sounds like a death knell or a psychiatry diagnosis(Mordent, Lamordia, Dementlieu, etc). Then change it. Borca can be changed to Veniterres (combined from venimeux terres or French for venomous land). Forlorn was first identified by Barovians? Then Forlorn into Romanian is Rezerv (and referred to as Frontiera Rezerv or the Forlorn Frontier). And so on. Does it have to be perfect? Hell no! Does it sound cooler? Yes, especially if the players know enough of the language to understand it.

On last little note, I do this with magical weapons with names even if they don't make sense. I had an outsider with a sword named Fangelmere (German for Sea of Fire). It just sounds cooler. Hopefully this helps and remember to keep consistent with the names. That is the bigger hurdle for NPCs as I have trouble renaming them and keeping their identities straight (usually for disguising purposes).

Dark Angel wrote:While my group is not linguistically diverse (we do speak a smattering of other languages from schooling and another who grew up in a Korean-speaking household), I have yet to encounter the "These are nonsensical names, places, etc". I do strive to maintain the 'foreignness' of the domains. My group began in Barovia (a domain I ran to death in the 90s) and they were familiar with it and what was going on. When they traveled to nearby Borca, they were experiencing it as if it was a different land (and it was). I used an online translator to create names for places, phrases, and people's surnames. I had a large map of Levkarest and made a duplicate for the players with the quarters labeled and the street names on it. All of it was in French (the language basis for Borcan). The names were simple translations of what they were (main street, butcher's row, etc). I did the same for businesses as well.

Taking a page from HuManBing, his 'new' name for Lamordia is translated from the phrase 'Northern Reach' (I believe, not 100%). Many places in our world are direct translations (South Africa, Côte d'Ivoire, United States of America, The United Kingdom, etc are not great examples (but are still examples)) from what they are into the native tongues of the namers. It gives the setting weight and the silliness decreases. But that doesn't sound like the problem as much as every domain sounds like a death knell or a psychiatry diagnosis(Mordent, Lamordia, Dementlieu, etc). Then change it. Borca can be changed to Veniterres (combined from venimeux terres or French for venomous land). Forlorn was first identified by Barovians? Then Forlorn into Romanian is Rezerv (and referred to as Frontiera Rezerv or the Forlorn Frontier). And so on. Does it have to be perfect? Hell no! Does it sound cooler? Yes, especially if the players know enough of the language to understand it.

On last little note, I do this with magical weapons with names even if they don't make sense. I had an outsider with a sword named Fangelmere (German for Sea of Fire). It just sounds cooler. Hopefully this helps and remember to keep consistent with the names. That is the bigger hurdle for NPCs as I have trouble renaming them and keeping their identities straight (usually for disguising purposes).

I like the idea for the sword/item naming.... i'm going to have to take a mental note to do that so I have more 'named swords'

Zilfer wrote:I like the idea for the sword/item naming.... i'm going to have to take a mental note to do that so I have more 'named swords'

I know this kind of takes away from the thread, but I have thought about naming weapons (using another language) something like "Self destruction" or "Cursed implement". I named a patron's manor Maison de Dures Cauchemars and the ones who could speak Borcan had actually looked it up on his iPhone before others could question it. He looked at me and said, "Really, the house of harsh nightmares?"

I told him it was on a lovely piece of land near the river. Nothing said about the hellspout below the estate's grounds...

There are actually a ton of places in the real world with similar names scattered about. We have the city of Hell here in Michigan for example.