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what would be the ravenloftian equilivents be of the various demi-elementals & para-elementals?

for example we have ooze, magma & salt demi-elementals.

bump?

Wasn't there a thread about the Ravenloft demi-elements?

That's something I wouldn't Ravenloftise, actually.

One would think you could simply apply the dread elemental template to one of these and call it a day, though I'm not as familiar with para-elementals beyond them being elementals of two different types fused together as they border two different elemental planes, normally.

Ash, dust, salt, and vacuum para-elementals would already be infused with negative energy, so they might not need any futher modification. If you think about it, each of those para-elements is already pretty creepy. Ashes and dust are associated with death, salt can represent thirst (and I believe salt para-elementals have some sort of dehydration power) and vacuum is invisible (and silent) yet at the same time almost instantly fatal.

I'm not so sure about quasi-elementals (where the elemental planes touch on the Negative and Positive Energy Planes) working as dread elementals. Positive para-elementals are beings of as much positive energy as elemental matter and might not be susceptible to corruption. Negative para-elementals are often destructive enough that they don't really need dread elemental status to be horrors in their own right.

Alastor wrote:Ash, dust, salt, and vacuum para-elementals would already be infused with negative energy, so they might not need any further modification. If you think about it, each of those para-elements is already pretty creepy. Ashes and dust are associated with death, salt can represent thirst (and I believe salt para-elementals have some sort of dehydration power) and vacuum is invisible (and silent) yet at the same time almost instantly fatal.

Those are the negative quasi-elements. There are versions presented in Libris Mortis, albeit as undead elementals (how does that work?).

Those are the negative quasi-elements.

Yes, absolutely right. Sorry for the incorrect elemental terminology.

There are versions presented in Libris Mortis, albeit as undead elementals (how does that work?).

I recall reading something, perhaps in the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes, about normal elementals arising more frequently in areas of their respective planes touched by positive energy. Since this can't be true of negative quasi-elementals, they must be powered by negative energy instead, making them undead-like. Since elementals can't be raised, it's hard to see how an elemental could ever become truly undead. It would most sense to me for negative quasi-elementals to retain the elemental type, but be healed by negative and harmed by positive energy (similar to the way the Kir-Lanan gargoyle works). Is that how Libris Mortis handles it?

High Priest Mikhal wrote:I'm not so sure about quasi-elementals (where the elemental planes touch on the Negative and Positive Energy Planes) working as dread elementals. Positive para-elementals are beings of as much positive energy as elemental matter and might not be susceptible to corruption. Negative para-elementals are often destructive enough that they don't really need dread elemental status to be horrors in their own right.

I don't think being powered by positive energy would make them any less susceptible to corruption - so are the ancient dead and, for that matter, humans. Positive energy isn't good, it's just positive.



Libris Mortis has undead elementals called necromentals. They're actual undead - they're type is undead (augmented elemental/outsider). Compared to a normal elemental, they've got fast healing, energy drain and create spawn from other elementals.

In terms of general tools for making elementals icky, we've got the necromental template, Mangrum's corrupted elemental template, and my dread elemental template.

Considering that para-elementals are equal parts of two elements, i.e. Fire + Air = Smoke, I'm not sure how you would make a dread para-elemental. At least, not with the existing dread elementals as a base to start with.

I mean, Pyre + Mist = ???

Myre? or.... pist.... oh wait that doesn't work. xD (zips on out of topic)

What do dread elementals do anyways? I haven't ever really used one in my campaigns so kind of a weird question i guess. I could see Ash being a ravenloft elemental or smoke...

Actually, I'm thinking about this the wrong way. Instead of combining two "dread" elements, the two normal elements would be combined first and then corrupted to a "dread" version.

So you'd have to come up with a "dread" version of smoke, ice, magma, and "ooze" (mud).

Soot, Rime, Ember, Quicksand. Just throwing out some possibilities.

Eddyspaghetti wrote:Soot, Rime, Ember, Quicksand. Just throwing out some possibilities.

boney or bloody quicksand maybe?

High Priest Mikhal wrote: Those are the negative quasi-elements. There are versions presented in Libris Mortis, albeit as undead elementals (how does that work?).

If anyone could make it work, I think it's most fitting that an Elemental Lich would be able to make it happen.