Nukdai wrote:Greetings Fraternity... well I'm not one to sugarcoat things so here it is: I'm currently involved in a 4th edition campaign set in a world created by the current DM (we rotate in our group) that he claims to have had planned since second edition, currently we are up to about lvl 14 on average and about 2/3 the way thru the campaign.
Hi, I'll see what I can to provide some answers but it seems like there's a few problems here. I'm going to break them up and give advise as best as I can.
Nukdai wrote:Turns out the DM we shall call him "Bob" wants to turn the exploits of group into a series of novels set in his own little world.
Intentions of novels tend to be bad for the game, especially 4e. Story plots & pacing and game plots & pacing tend to be mutually exclusive. And the requirements of the game (divided into memorable game sessions).
It can be done and done well, but requires an extraordinarily good DM.
Nukdai wrote:well long story short he doesn't award treasure equivical to our lvls when we get any at all,
This is bad. 4e is built around consistent and hard math. In earlier editions - such as 2nd - you could be stingy on most treasure and be fine. But at around 14th level the math of 4e says you
must have +3 or +4 armour, weapons, and neck-slot items.
All of your solutions to this DM's problems involve talking with him one-on-one and expressing your concerns. Go to a neutral environment (coffee shop and buy him a drink) and let him know the group is not enjoying the game. Let him know you want to finish and are willing to work with him to get his story done, but there needs to be mechanical considerations.
In this case, the lack of treasure is solvable by using the inherent bonus rules found in the DMG2 (or in the Character Builder if you use that).
Without magic items, the PCs' attacks, defenses, and damage lag behind. You can solve this problem by giving the PCs flat bonuses as they advance in level. These bonuses stack.
Attack and Dama8e: All characters gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls at 2nd, 7th, 11th, 17th, and, and 27th level.
Defenses: All PCs gain a +1 bonus to AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will at 4th, 9th, 14th, 19th, 24th, and 29th level.
Nukdai wrote:we routinly fight encounters 8 to 10 lvls (not kidding) above our selves.
This is not as bad in 4e, but generally anything above level+5 is asking for a TPK. If it's a single monster that's one thing, but if every monster is that high you're not likely to hit often. Again, the math isn't in your favour. An optimized character is going to miss in a fight roughly 40% of the time against an even-levelled opponent. This increases by 5% for each level the monster is higher than you. Against monsters 8-10 levels higher you should be only hitting on 17-20s and missing 80-90% of the time. That's just hard to play.
This kind of encounter works fine once in a while if you're given alternate conditions for victory (protect NPC-a, destroy crystal-b, etc) or if you're given a McGuffin that will let you win (special weapon that does extra damage). Or if it's the Big Bad you're not supposed to defeat and have to run from.
If an NPC (also known as a DM-PC) has to regularly save you then that's no fun for the party. And if you always have to run away then that's no fun either.
I'd like more information on this. Why so high? Does he just want to use monsters of that level or does he really want to challenge you? Given how he seems to be spectacularly bad, he might just not know he can level-down monsters to your level.
Nukdai wrote:not to mention as a party we truly have no say in what our next move will be.
Railroading is a common PC complaint. It's easier to ignore and roll with. Generally, it's more forgiving if you're given a reason and motivation to go with the flow, and if it makes sense. Even good DMs often bluff an element of choice, knowing their PCs will likely go to danger and the hook rather than just return to the tavern to get drunk.
However, having no choice or even the illusion of choice encourages players to misbehave. If they have no freedom they'll often act out or rebel, grasping what little freedom they have.
Getting Bob the DM to compromise might be a good idea. Ask him to occasionally give you a choice, even if it's just the order you want to tackle his hooks.
Nukdai wrote:I could go on more but we don't have the space. currently we have a small plan involving a few of the party members (4 out of 7) on how to get TPK and end the misery of just gaming with Bob. problem though he and his family are good friends of ours. did I mention his manners are worse than a three year-olds?
I'd recommend an attempt at civility first. Express concern about seeing the story finished (if he's held onto it for 14 years he's committed).
Go with the above first, suggesting the optional rules to make-up for the lack of treasure, adding a small illusion of choice, and maybe toning down the encounters (which probably don't help with the TPK desire). Really, if he's that committed to the plot a TPK will not stop him and you'll just be taken prisoner or saved at the last minute.
I'd also advise him to read the DMG1 and DMG2. Really read them. (Ch 1-3, 6-10 and Ch 1,2, 4-6).
I'd also reccomend you suggest he read the webcomic DM of the Rings. Suggest this before the intervention-style chat. More a "you should read this webcomic. it's funny" recommendation. But the strip and it's blurbs have alot of advice that might hit home.
