Mistfinder: Pathfinder in Ravenloft

Discussing all things Ravenloft
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Mistfinder: Pathfinder in Ravenloft

Post by Jester of the FoS »

The big 500-page and $50 Pathfinder RPG is out.
And has it's own SRD:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

How does everyone feel about 3.75 and Ravenloft? Obviously, the new modified half-orc becomes the caliban, but the half-Vistani still need to be made.
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Post by ewancummins »

I'd play. :)
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Post by Tobias Blackburn »

Starting up a game of it now actually. Just finishing tweaking the Half-Vistani.
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Post by alhoon »

Half orcs get a +2 to ANY ability score... :?
Nah, they're good as callibans, but not as half orcs.

EDIT: I checked the new rules from the SRD...

Well, it seems more like 3.6 to me instead of 3.75. :) A few corrections and improvements here and there. Really the new set of rules doesn't differ too much from 3.5
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Post by Tobias Blackburn »

alhoon wrote:Half orcs get a +2 to ANY ability score... :?
Nah, they're good as callibans, but not as half orcs.
The only problem I have with the half-orc is that it still seems underpowered compared to the other races.

Look at the half-elf. Same stat bonus option, bonus to perception, immunity to sleep magic and bonus against enchantment, skill focus as a bonus feat, low-light vision, and the ability to have TWO favoured classes.

Sorry, but 1 extra round of fighting if you should be unconscious, use two weapons and making any "orc" weapons martial, and darkvision do not balance against that.

Some changes I made to Calibans:

-Change Orc Blood to Twisted (character both human and caliban for effects).

-Change Orc Ferocity to Last Chance (same effect)

-Lower Darkvision to Low-light vision (Darkvision becomes a Deformity feat)

-Remove Weapon Familiarity

-Add Hidden (Calibans may choose a single skill to gain +2 bonus on and always have as a class skill. The choices are Knowledge (any one)*, Stealth and Survival.)

-Add Hideous (Calibans can "absorb" a number of OR raising effects and situations equal to 5 before their OR starts rising.

-The Caliban gains a free Deformity** feat.

*Knowledge is an option to represent those Calibans who are cared for growing up, but basically can do nothing but observe and learn (such as those in a church having knowledge (religion), those near a university library having more academic choices, etc.

**I have a list of Deformity feats to help encourage a bit of customization. Each deformity feat increases the character's OR by a certain amount.
alhoon wrote: Well, it seems more like 3.6 to me instead of 3.75. :) A few corrections and improvements here and there. Really the new set of rules doesn't differ too much from 3.5
Well, they made about the same number of changes as between 3e to 3.5, by they're smoother changes. Converting material from 3.5 to Pathfinder isn't all that difficult.

They finally fixed grappling and other special abilities and gave Fighters actual options at higher levels.

Have to admit that I like it more than 4e. :roll:
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Post by Algaris »

I just picked up Pathfinder a few days ago. Haven't finished reading through it yet but I like a number of the changes they've made. The Gnome is now one of my favourite races, I love what they've done to them with a few tweaks.

I wonder how hard it would be to upgrade an existing 3.5 Ravenloft campaign to Pathfinder. For me the complicating factor is that I'm using the character classes from Legends & Lairs Darkness & Dread book rather than core classes.
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Post by Tobias Blackburn »

Most of the Ravenloft 3e/3.5 doesn't seem hard to convert. I can't say how you'll find converting the Legend and Lair stuff. It depends on exactly what you want to convert.

The favoured class mechanics, updated skills, feats, magic and maneuvers should be fine. The 3rd party classes will probably be the most difficult, but just how much depends on how far away from the core they strayed in terms of balance.
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Post by ewancummins »

Algaris wrote:I just picked up Pathfinder a few days ago. Haven't finished reading through it yet but I like a number of the changes they've made. The Gnome is now one of my favourite races, I love what they've done to them with a few tweaks.

I wonder how hard it would be to upgrade an existing 3.5 Ravenloft campaign to Pathfinder. For me the complicating factor is that I'm using the character classes from Legends & Lairs Darkness & Dread book rather than core classes.

Ah, I've got that book. I kind of liked those classes. How do you find they balance with the NPC classes from the DMG?
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Post by Joël of the FoS »

I love Pathfinder, this is quite cool. I have read about 20 % of the book so far.

There are many changes, alhoon, get a closer look, you'll see. There are more significant changes then from 3 to 3.5e. More possibilities, and this is extremely positive, IMHO.

In the end, the PCs have more abilities and things to do, but many of them are for flavor, so it's not just munchkinism, AFAICS.

The new races ability tweaks is fun and well balanced, except perhaps the half-orc, as discussed above, in the view of making these calibans.

On classes, I really appreciate many things: the new Rage Powers for barbarians, the cleric domains revisited, the Channel Energy clerical power (that replaces Turn Undead - you heal/harm all within 30 foot; good clerics heal living creatures or deal damage to undead*), the druid's animal companion is much expanded, fighters are no longuer borring, paladins get more paladinesque, rogues have fun new little powers, we know where sorcerers get their magic (bloodlines), more developped wizard school, ...

* and Turn Undead is now a feat, so a cleric could still do it if he wants.

Lovely book, highly recommended.

Joël
Last edited by Joël of the FoS on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Joël of the FoS »

Cool suggestions for Calibans, Tobias. Do you have nearby the list of Deformity Feat you suggest?

Since they are often brutish, because of their heritage or harsher education, could we say for abilities:

+ 2 Str, or Con
+2 to One Ability Score: Half-orc characters get a +2 bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature
- 2 In, or Wis, or Ch

So you could have varied Calibans, depending on their backstory. Only permanent feature is being more robust.
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Post by Tobias Blackburn »

Joël of the FoS wrote:Cool suggestions for Calibans, Tobias. Do you have nearby the list of Deformity Feat you suggest?

Since they are often brutish, because of their heritage or harsher education, could we say for abilities:

+ 2 Str, or Con
+2 to One Ability Score: Half-orc characters get a +2 bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature
- 2 In, or Wis, or Ch

So you could have varied Calibans, depending on their backstory. Only permanent feature is being more robust.
I'll put together the list once I finish converting them Hopefully by this Monday. They're meant for all Ravenloft characters to be able to take, but Calibans get the most use out of them due to their OR soak I described.

Your suggestion for the stat adjustments could work, but it still shifts things towards brutish, and I can't say I see all of them being that way.

Picture a young one hidden away for years. His body is twisted and frail, but he has access to books, through which his mind grows and soars. He begins to hobble where he can to get his hands on more books, and eventually starts corresponding with other scholars around the Core and beyond. He is forceful in his points and explain them well, and is witty enough to be interesting. Eventually he finds himself in a jam because several of his letter friends have come to town to meet him in person.

Look at the Phantom of the Opera. His Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma were definitely his high stats. Con or Str were definitely his lowest.

At the same time the Wailing Ones of Mordent seem more ethereal, so I don't know if giving them a mental penalty makes more sense than a physical one.

So I don't think that an automatic penalty to something mental is necessarily the best idea, though I would place it on Charisma if I had to, only because that is the one place where they are unlikely to develop as much as the others (and they could use the mental bonus to perk it up if they insist).

Still looking over variant stat distribution at the moment. But the ability to customize the caliban by background is a must due to the variable nature of them. I'd just be worried about setting a penalty to anything particular stat at the moment, and I'm not sure if "+2 to one physical stat of your choice, +2 to one mental stat of your choice, -2 to one stat of your choice" is too broken, though it would give them the most customization.

If we went that way we would probably want to take away the vision adjustment, the Orc Ferocity and the weapon familiarity.

EDIT: On further thought, perhaps -2 Cha, +2 to any one physical and one mental stat of your choice is a good way to go. If gives options for customization while keeping players from focusing too much on what makes them good (ie, boosting only physical stats for fighters, only mental stats for Wizards, etc).

I'll see about balancing it a bit and posting it tomorrow after I get up. I'll throw in some Deformity feats while I'm at it.
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Post by cure »

Did Pathfinder issue a conversion guide and/or a list of changes?
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Post by Joël of the FoS »

Yes there is a conversion guide from 3.5 (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfi ... 48btpy89m6), and I would like an exhaustive list of changes but haven't found any.

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Post by Tobias Blackburn »

cure wrote:Did Pathfinder issue a conversion guide and/or a list of changes?
EDIT: Joel beat me to the punch on the link. :wink:

Here's a list of what they say they changed in their FAQ.

How does the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game improve on the core 3.5 fantasy system?

Grappling a monster no longer requires you to have a master's degree in combat rules with a minor in spatial mechanics.

Using a polymorph spell does not require 3 different FAQ documents, 4 bestiaries, and a mountain of house rules.

Clerics can actually cast their prepared spells instead of converting them into healing.

Bards don't suck. Now they can make you die with laughter.

Monks don't suck. When they use flurry of blows they actually hit.

Paladins don't suck. Smite evil lasts until your target is dead.

Rangers don't suck. You really do not want to be a ranger's quarry.

Sorcerers don't suck. Bloodlines give you a host of cool powers and abilities.

There is now a reason to wear medium armor. With a good Dexterity score, you can get an AC of 19 by just wearing a breastplate.

Building the skill list of a rogue 5/barbarian 3/assassin 2 now only takes about 2 minutes.

Use Rope is gone. Climbing a wall requires only one skill check.

Spellcasters do not have to spend a bunch of ranks on Concentration (or any other skill) to be able to cast their spells in the middle of combat.

At high levels, a fighter can cause a character to become blinded and stunned with a critical hit.

At high levels, a paladin can cure a character that is blinded and stunned with a touch.

Curses, diseases, and poisons are now something that the players want to avoid contracting.

Putting together an encounter only requires you to add up the XP totals of the monsters you are using.

You do not have to wear a Christmas tree of magic items to be a successful adventurer. Monsters are designed with normal characters in mind.

Creating magic items now comes with the risk of making a cursed item if you are not well-prepared and careful.

You never, ever have to "de-level" your character.

With more healing and reusable abilities, the 15-minute adventuring day is a thing of the past.

You don't have to scrounge through secondhand bookstores to find the rulebooks. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game releases on August 13th, 2009 in game stores everywhere.
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Post by alhoon »

Actually I like those changes.

Joel: Still, they don't seem enough for me to buy the book. I'll use the SRD.
When I said "it's not that different" I meant not so different in style or feeling from 3.5 than say Conan d20, or Wheel of Time d20.
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