Café de Nuit

I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in starting a follow-up thread to WolfKook's.

I thought it would be appropriate to keep a separate thread for "reactions" to the darklord descriptions, to avoid cluttering the main thread. If I'm stepping out of my line here, WolfKook, let me know.

I'm very excited to meet the 20 all new dark lords and ladies written up by devoted fans. The first to go, if memory serves, is the Black Dragon, darklord of Annaes. Can't wait to learn more about that sentient spelljamming ship and how it got stranded in Ravenloft.

Igor the Henchman wrote:I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in starting a follow-up thread to WolfKook's.

You're not, by any means. I deeply appreciate that you take a little work from my shoulders, and this is a good idea.

I'm very excited to meet the 20 all new dark lords and ladies written up by devoted fans. The first to go, if memory serves, is the Black Dragon, darklord of Annaes. Can't wait to learn more about that sentient spelljamming ship and how it got stranded in Ravenloft.

Hehehehehehehe... In that you're wrong. This time, I'll post them in alphabetical order, by Darklord name, not by Domain name... The first is Aischos, darklord of Cratia, and the next one is the couple formed by Amedeo Gentilleshi and Guendalina Paganelli (sp?). The Black Dragon won't be far behind, though.

WolfKook wrote:..The first is Aischos, darklord of Cratia, and the next one is the couple formed by Amedeo Gentilleshi and Guendalina Paganelli (sp?). The Black Dragon won't be far behind, though.

Gentileshi with a single 'l'

But don't worry, Amedeo is powerless and wouldn't smite you anyway

As a warning, I'll preface my comments with the fact that I've never yet met a fan-made domain I really liked. So if I come off as harsh, it's probably my own bias, and not a reflection on the work itself. I hope you'll all keep that in mind. I don't mind giving a scathing review to a published work, but I feel kinda bad doing so to something my friends have written. And while I've been following the contest thus far and seen a few things I do like, on the whole, it hasn't changed my stance on fan-made domains. So I apologize in advance for any hard feelings.

That said: First darklord, Aischos --- I don't like it.
Firstly, the story is too close to an existing RL canon character, IMHO. The Man in the Iron Mask meets Hunchback of Notre Dame shtick has already been done in Tower of Doom. I'd rather see Wort as a new DL than a classical spin on the same motif.

That said, the classical theme does add a lot and gives positive points. The Oracle's prophecy definitely sets things up well, and the Ravenloft-Sparta idea that a hunchback should be killed at birth fits in well too.

But the other major issue is that I don't see Diodorus's descent as believable. Similar to how I felt about Revenge of the Sith, it all happens too abruptly. His only sin in trying to kill the amazon queen was believing his father (now the father might be DL material, by the way...). He killed his brother by accident/fate and after seeing the evidence against his father (what evidence, by the way?) he kills his father almost justly. But then all of a sudden, he becomes a paranoid and EVIL tyrant. Why? how?

With a little work on the story, this last few problems could be fixed, but as it stands... my vote is no on this one.

(Again, I'm sorry if this seems harsh. Just going for honest and constructive criticism.)

Aischos: I have to say it was a pleasant surprise that it wasn't the deformed brother that was the evil one when a number of the evidence was pointing at him at first. Because there were so many hes, I got really confused who did what (ran away from the castle because of the curse) and who got "kidnapped". My constructive crit is when you have a good number of characters of the same gender, it helps to use their names a little more often.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:As a warning, I'll preface my comments with the fact that I've never yet met a fan-made domain I really liked.

Um, so, what about canon domains?...

Really, Gonzo? I thought you liked that dwarf darklord I made.

I like the classical elements of Aischos; I'd like to see a classical cluster created, with the DLs transformed into harpy, centaur, minotaur, medusa, etc.
Aischos, however, doesn't seem to fall. He's deceived by and personally cuts down his father. That doesn't seem like enough to earn a domain. It needs something more, maybe after the patricide.

WolfKook, I have a favor to beg: could you please put some spaces between paragraphs like MadStepDad did on his board? It makes all the difference between comfortable reading and wanting to tear one's eyes out.

King Aischos then. First off, bravo for the unexpected twist: the handsome brother takes on his siblings deformity and name. That was the highlight of the write-up for me.

I don't know who imagined Aischos's story, but its a rich and interesting one. But I've got to admit to a bias: I believe a good "Current Sketch" section is the true mark of a cool darklord. No matter how interesting the darklord's past might be, its ultimately more important to know what he's up to now and what sort of cool adventures he could generate. I think Aischos needs a few more selling points in terms of "Wow, I want this guy in my campaign!" Also, while he's got some very deep Gothic themes going on, he's not very horrific, and from what I've read so far, neither is the domain. But it does fill a previously unexplored "classical age" niche, so I guess I'll wait to see the domain write-up before making up my mind on this one.

The detail that's a little weird to me is the way Diodorus is almost transformed into Aischos...by taking his name, then becoming deformed (and some more explanation or deepening of the process of deformation would be good, I think, because as-is it a really strange detail that is just thrown out there). Is this a Fate thing? The evil brother must be named Aischos and be deformed? But, if that's the case, then what about the brother who was already named Aischos, and was deformed, and wasn't really evil?

Just an observation: It's sad but true that a "classical" darklord would be very, very hard to do. Not just because it's an odd fit for Ravenloft, but because many Greek tragedies choose to depict their protagonists as the powerless victims of fate and/or divine caprice. That's certainly true of King Aischos -- in fact, judged purely as an homage to Greek tragedy, it's one of the most moving facets of his story -- but unfortunately, this same attribute of classical fiction makes it very tough to create a villain who can be held solely responsible for his own damnation. The very thing that makes Aischos's backstory feel so "classical" also undermines his viability as a darklord, and that's far more the fault of the tragedies being emulated than the fault of the writer.

The sad truth about DLs and domains with short explanation regarding sins, descents and so on, is imho the words constraints' fault.

In this contest, I had to re-write thrice or more entire parts (or even the whole domain) just to be sure to fit into the 30 or 300 words limit, many times to make the reader both informed about the nature of the content and having an enjoyable reading, something hard, as you undoubtely know.

On the other hand, to have to read pages and pages of domains to properly judge would be bad as well, especially because of the huge number of entries...and no one said old ideas cannot be used again in later stages !

DocBeard wrote:Really, Gonzo? I thought you liked that dwarf darklord I made.

Honestly, I don't remember. (That's not necessarily a judgement on how good it was, I just have an old man's memory nowadays.) Was it this one?
Doesn't look like I responded there, and it's not ringing any bells. Unless you reposted or revised it and I posted on that thread, I think you've mixed me up with someone else. (I'm not going to read it now and judge either, mainly due to time constraints, plus my aforementioned aversion to new domains. )

Nathan of the FoS wrote:Um, so, what about canon domains?...

The canon domains certainly have their stinkers among them, and I can't claim to love every one of them. But in general, I think they cover the archetypes that I want in my Ravenloft pretty well. For me to truly like a new domain, it's going to have to bring a lot to the table. Not just quality as a story or RPG locale, but it's got to be something that really makes me feel like something was missing from Ravenloft all along.

Rotipher of the FoS wrote:Just an observation: It's sad but true that a "classical" darklord would be very, very hard to do. Not just because it's an odd fit for Ravenloft, but because many Greek tragedies choose to depict their protagonists as the powerless victims of fate and/or divine caprice.

An excellent point. The only solution I see might be to graft gothic morals onto a classical story, by having the protagonist blame fate for what are really his own choices. After all, as a character in a great gothic work once said, "There is no fate but what we make"

(I'm not going to read it now and judge either, mainly due to time constraints, plus my aforementioned aversion to new domains. Smile )

Obviously I misremembered. Apologies for wasting your time.

WolfKook wrote: Amedeo Gentilleshi and Guendalina Paganelli

Amedeo Gentileschi and Guendalina Paganelli