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Doubt about infected lycanthrope PCs

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:14 pm
by Ail
Hello there,

hope you've all had a good Christmas / whatever and a good entry into 2006.
I have an infected PC in my campaign, and I've had a doubt after he transformed for the first time. Do the several abilities gained from the template, like AC, Att, Saves, etc, also function when the character is in his human form? I'd rule no, and that's what I've been using, but the MM seems to suggest otherwise, and even a Dread possibility in VrA suggested this. What do you do in your campaigns?
Personally, I only use those template changes when the PC is in animal or hybrid (in his case) form, but I consider that he will gain all the template changes in all forms if he takes Control Shape ranks (or is it a Fear???).

Thanks all.

Ail

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:30 pm
by Jester of the FoS
I'd rule those only apply in the shifted forms and that even when one has control the bonus only apply when a hybrid or an animal. They are simply faster and stronger while the human remains the same.
I wouldn't give an infected lycanthrope a bite attack in human form, nor would I give them an AC bonus.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:00 pm
by Joël of the FoS
That is also how I dealed with this question in my campaign.

Joël

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:16 pm
by Ail
Thanks. That is what makes sense to me, and to my players too, but the text wasn't clear.

Ail

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:03 pm
by Mangrum
The character keeps the extra Hit Dice in human form. This means it also keeps the hit points, skill points, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and possibly feats that come with it.

The human character also keeps the template's +2 natural armor (but not the animal form's base natural armor bonus), and the +2 modifier to Wisdom.

It gets a bite attack only in hybrid or animal form, and claw attacks only in hybrid form.

The human character also keeps low-light vision and, I believe, the scent ability.

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:47 pm
by Joël of the FoS
Well indeed :)

From the SRD:
LYCANTHROPES AS CHARACTERS
Becoming a lycanthrope does not change a character’s favored class but usually changes alignment (see above). This alignment change may cause characters of certain classes to lose some of their class features.
Lycanthrope characters possess the following racial traits.
+2 Wisdom. Physical abilities are increased by the animal form’s ability modifiers when a lycanthrope changes to its hybrid or animal forms.
—Size same as the base creature or the base animal form.
Low-light vision in any form.
Scent in any form.
—Racial Hit Dice: A lycanthrope adds the Hit Dice of its animal form to its base Hit Dice for race, level, and class. These additional Hit Dice modify the lycanthrope’s base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses accordingly.
—Racial Skills: A lycanthrope adds skill points for its animal Hit Dice much as if it had multiclassed into the animal type. It gains skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die of the animal form. Any skills that appear in the animal’s description are treated as class skills for the lycanthrope’s animal levels. The lycanthrope’s maximum skill ranks are equal to its animal form Hit Dice + its racial Hit Dice (if any) + its class levels + 3. Any racial skill adjustments of the lycanthrope’s base race and its animal form (but not conditional adjustments) are added to its skill modifiers in any form.
—Racial Feats: Add the animal’s Hit Dice to the base character’s own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has. All lycanthropes gain Iron Will as a bonus feat.
+2 natural armor bonus in any form.
—Special Qualities (see above): Alternate form, lycanthropic empathy, curse of lycanthropy (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Afflicted lycanthrope: damage reduction 5/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Natural lycanthrope: damage reduction 10/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Automatic Languages: As base creature.
—Favored Class: Same as the base creature.
—Level adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural).
But I do not get why the armor bonus in any form. Unless it's to take account of increased dex or animal reflexes?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:58 am
by Mangrum
Joël of the Fraternity wrote:But I do not get why the armor bonus in any form. Unless it's to take account of increased dex or animal reflexes?
That would be a dodge bonus, if anything. (Really, what you describe is a plain vanilla Dex bonus to AC.) The natural armor bonus means the lycanthrope is simply physically tougher than normal.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:37 am
by Ail
Mangrum wrote:
Joël of the Fraternity wrote:But I do not get why the armor bonus in any form. Unless it's to take account of increased dex or animal reflexes?
That would be a dodge bonus, if anything. (Really, what you describe is a plain vanilla Dex bonus to AC.) The natural armor bonus means the lycanthrope is simply physically tougher than normal.
Thanks for clearing this up, John. I will adopt a mix, then. Since the PC is going to be in the party again and I don't want him to be more powerful than the other ones, I'll keep those changes to human form latent until he 'buys them off' with Control Shape.... sort of what you've done in Beasts at Heart (this is mostly because I have another player who would covet the extra power of the other PC and probably force himself into becoming a werewolf too).

Alex.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:04 pm
by Mangrum
The best way to pay them off is actually with ECL -- "afflicted werewolf" is the equivalent of 4 character levels. There was a Dragon issue a while back that broke down the MM lycanthropes into monster levels. If you use that system, you could give the PC one level of "werewolf" immediately, which he would then need to "pay off" with XP. Then, as he continued to rise in level, require the character to take "werewolf" for the next three levels. Once the PC is a "4th-level werewolf," it can go back to taking levels in whatever classes the player wants. (And treat the monster levels like a prestige class -- they don't incur XP penalties for multiclassing.)

This allows the werewolf to gradually develop its abilities, keeping it roughly at the same power level as the rest of the party.

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:06 pm
by JinnTolser
That's actually a great idea. Does anybody know what issue of Dragon that was?

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:38 pm
by Mangrum
Just looked, and it was issue #313. Big werewolf on the cover, can't miss it.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:45 am
by JinnTolser
Thank you very much. Not that I have it or anything, but if I ever get a chance to flip through some back issues, I'll look for it.

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:38 pm
by The Giamarga
Also check out this article on WoTC: Savage Progressions: Werewolf template class