Café de Nuit

Best to get in early on writing articles for QtR because they ALWAYS take longer than you would expect them to take.

I am going to write an article on Alchemical Philosophers and Alchemical Children, and was delighted to see Alchemical Philosophy featured in QtR #24 in 'The Conferences of Victor Gagné' by Benjamin Bauml.

Unfortunately, the crunch given to us in Van Richten's Arsenal is sadly of poor quality. No one in their right mind is going to take the Alchemical Philosopher prestige class, so that needs fixing. And the Alchemical Child is just a confused and contradictory mess. That needs clearing up.

Does anyone have ideas for additional Alchemical Formulae? If so, and its a good one, I may feature it and give you credit for your contribution in QtR #27.

tomokaicho wrote:I am going to write an article on Alchemical Philosophers and Alchemical Children, and was delighted to see Alchemical Philosophy featured in QtR #24 in 'The Conferences of Victor Gagné' by Benjamin Bauml.

Does anyone have ideas for additional Alchemical Formulae? If so, and its a good one, I may feature it and give you credit for your contribution in QtR #27.

Just bouncing ideas at the moment - but maybe you could upgrade the extremely limited 'three permutations' from VRA to the twelve that historical Hermetic Alchemy had. (brief list here).

This would allow things to be 'arranged' like the nine schools of magic, vastly expanding potential forumula and giving a rough outline of what forumula would fit where. I think the 12 permutations were based on the zodiac as astrology was heaving mixed with Hermiticsm - I'm not sure if there is a Ravenloft zodiac though. I think there were also 7 principles of alchemy as well which could be used to base a formula on.

Do you have a rough idea what you prefer the Alchemical Philosopher to be? Historical Alchemy was tied up with a heavy spiritual base, which is a bit of a distance from the glorified potion mixer from VRA.

Of course if I am off track please tell me, and I will try to think of some formulas.

DustBunny wrote:Just bouncing ideas at the moment - but maybe you could upgrade the extremely limited 'three permutations' from VRA to the twelve that historical Hermetic Alchemy had. (brief list here).

This would allow things to be 'arranged' like the nine schools of magic, vastly expanding potential forumula and giving a rough outline of what forumula would fit where. I think the 12 permutations were based on the zodiac as astrology was heaving mixed with Hermiticsm - I'm not sure if there is a Ravenloft zodiac though. I think there were also 7 principles of alchemy as well which could be used to base a formula on.

Interesting idea and I almost want to do that, but it increases the scope of what I am thinking about.

DustBunny wrote:Do you have a rough idea what you prefer the Alchemical Philosopher to be? Historical Alchemy was tied up with a heavy spiritual base, which is a bit of a distance from the glorified potion mixer from VRA.

I'd give the Alchemical Philosopher some spellcasting advancement, for one. Most of the Alchemical Formulae are rather lame too. Essential Coagluant and Alchemical Child are pretty much all there is to it.

DustBunny wrote:Of course if I am off track please tell me, and I will try to think of some formulas.

Within the three permutations, can you think of any worthy additions?

Perhaps ones based on monsters of myth and legend, ones that the people of ravenloft are unfamiliar with?
Each could represent a different aspect of alchemy
-Chimera: Life and Creation. Usually centered around the creation of golems, hommunuclie, that sort of stuff.
-Basilisk: Change. Much like the basilisk can turn stone into flesh, followers of this path wish to change both flesh and mineral at will. Your typical lead into gold stuff
-Dragon: Apotheosis and Pureification: The dragon is the symbol of power, purity, and transcendence. This path of alchemy focuses on purifying the body and soul.

You might be interested in the Pathfinder Alchimist class.

tomokaicho wrote:Within the three permutations, can you think of any worthy additions?

No problem
Leaving the three permutations alone as requested, I decided to expand the 'forms' a bit

The three I added are Exaltation - Elevation of base matter, Projection - stepping between the realms of spirit and matter, Conjugagition - A in game representation of the idea of the Akshaic Records.
I Scribbled up the basic ideas, permuations and descriptions but have left the 'fluff and crunch' out, in case they dont work out thus saving time. If you need numbers let me know. Though at this point I am still trying to juggle the relative 'power' of each permutation, as the ones given in VRA as examples are all over the place.

And off we go...

****************

Exaltation
The elevation of base matter to the divine spirit

Permutation 1 - Aqua Regis
Aqua Regis (literally ‘royal water’), is a golden solution that when applied to any inanimate object removes the ravages of time from any inanimate object and protects it from further degradation for 1 year. Objects return to a point as if they had just been created – crumbling books become sturdy and the print sharp, swords as if they had just been forged, a cracked gem to an intact and freshly polished state. It has no effect on living or undead matter.

Permutation 2 - Elixir Vitae
The elixir of Life, a much sought after solution by royal and commoner alike. When this wondrous potion is consumed. When consumed it removes 5 years of aging (artificial and natural) from the imbiber. It does not cure or remove any other maladies the person may be suffering unless they are related to age.

Permutation 3 - Sang Real
An advancement of Elixir Vitae, Sang Real infuses the blood of a person with their own spiritual energies. Aging ceases, and the user is immune to natural and artificial aging as long as the potion is in effect. Also the imbiber is resistant to maladies of the body and mind as the divine energy coursing through their veins nourishes and repairs a damaged body as they regenerate 1hp turn. The potion lasts for 1 year when the effects fade and aging resumes normally and regeneration ceases.

Projection
Awaken your spirit and step beyond the world of flesh

Permutation 1 - Sight beyond Sight
By shifting their awareness to their spirit, the imbiber’s senses now extend into the world of spirits (near ethereal). They can see into the ethereal and can even communicate with ethereal entities. Ethereal sight overlays itself on the users normal sight, thus allow both the real world and the ethereal to be seen at the same time.
Only their senses extend into the plane, thus ethereal entities can not touch them (or vice versa).

Permutation 2 - Hands of the Spirit
With the awareness of sight beyond sight enhanced the imbiber can now interact with the ethereal plane. They can touch and interact with ethereal objects - including ghosts. The imbiber exists on both planes at the same time thus things in both realms can be manipulated by the user, but in return both worlds can interact with him

Permutation 3 - Straddling the worlds
The spirit and the body become one, and the imbiber now straddles the world of flesh and spirit, essentially existing in both worlds and able to switch between them at will.
Whilst appearing in both worlds, the actual solid body is only present on one. Switching ones state can be done at will for the duration. For example she could walk through a wall by shifting their state to ethereal, but to observers in the solid realm she would appear to walk through a wall, despite seemingly solid. Or if attacked by a ghost, she could change to physical, and the attacking ghost would be ineffectually attacking her ethereal form.

Conjugation
In some philosophies, there is a realm of perfect forms, of everything that has, does, and will exist. By higher alchemy one can have their spirit access this realm and glean hints of knowledge. But beware - the lure of knowledge is intoxicating and if one does not return to the flesh before the potion expires they will become lost - their spirit trapped in the library forever.

Permutation 1 - Cartis Scientiam
The lowest permutation permits only the briefest glimpse of the knowledge, but it is still useful. When imbibed the user fall into a trace like state as their spirit drifts at the edge of the realm. They experience the knowledge as brief glimpses of visions and events. They can describe what they see, and the words will them emerge from their mouth an the physical plane, allowing other to remember or copy down the words. Once they return to their body they will not remember what they saw.
(equivalent of a legend lore/divination spell but much faster and on any subject)

Permutation 2 - Sapienta Tabula
Delving deeper into the realm more obscure persons places and events the knowledge of the universe one can access can expand. The history of people, places and things is like a library - each telling a story. When imbibed the user and learn _everything_ about a person, place, or thing - the entire history is literally an open book. The seeker can learn everything up to the point they entered the 'library'. In game terms he player can look at the NPC sheet of the person they are researching, a entire map of a specified area, etc.

Permutation 3 - Bibliotheca universitatis
An at this permutation one enters the realm of everything. By perusing the books of knowledge they can predict something's future in addition to all prior affects.

In game terms if the user imbibes the third permutation they can essentially 'ret-con' any event which occurs to themselves after the event.
Eg: The alchemist and party turn down a corridor and run into a zombie golem, which jumps up and down on them till they are all squishy. The formula user can say 'I predicted that' and the party is 'rewound' in time to a prior point but with full memories of what occurred (what they 'remember' was the actual prophecy of what would happen) at this point they can try again with a different strategy (OK we saw it was immune to fire, lets try ice), avoid it (by not going down the corridor), or any number of other things. Note: the formula only works for 1 event before expiring. BY changing the event they changed the future thus any predictions have to be redone.

******

A freebie for other people who read my rambling this far. Thanks for reading.
Another 'form' which would fit easily into philo alchemy is 'transmutation'. The old lead to gold thing.

tomokaicho wrote:I am going to write an article on Alchemical Philosophers and Alchemical Children, and was delighted to see Alchemical Philosophy featured in QtR #24 in 'The Conferences of Victor Gagné' by Benjamin Bauml.

Unfortunately, the crunch given to us in Van Richten's Arsenal is sadly of poor quality. No one in their right mind is going to take the Alchemical Philosopher prestige class, so that needs fixing. And the Alchemical Child is just a confused and contradictory mess. That needs clearing up.

I agree; the flavor of High Alchemy is intriguing, but the execution is not quite satisfying.

The thing I found most annoying about the Alchemical Formulae was the limitation inherent in using feat slots to access formulae. Unless you take Alchemical Philosopher levels, you are unable to advance significantly in High Alchemy without sacrificing a bunch of feats. Taking levels in the class means you sacrifice your other magic to gain abilities a pure wizard can replicate with less loss of versatility. That is why I explicitly removed feat limitations in Qualensturm's statistics block using the excuse of "Alchemy by Dark Desire." When I finally get around to constructing an explicit statistics block for Victor himself, balancing his implied level of ability with the limitations of the Alchemy rules could be tricky. A fix to Alchemical Philosopher and some other aspects of High Alchemy would be excellent.

In VRA, it is mentioned that a single formula could fill a book. Since very few people could hope to memorize a technical tome (even the book people in Fahrenheit 451 were only memorizing stories), perhaps the ability to craft a specific formula should be mediated by access to magic books. The mechanics for crafting a magic item could stand in for the requirements of developing the formula from scratch, as well as deciding how much a particular formula is worth. This would give High Alchemy a stronger feel of being a field of active research. If that is a bit too loose, perhaps feat requirements could stick around as gatekeepers to certain classes (or clusters of classes) of formulae.

Wolfglide wrote: I agree; the flavor of High Alchemy is intriguing, but the execution is not quite satisfying.

The thing I found most annoying about the Alchemical Formulae was the limitation inherent in using feat slots to access formulae. Unless you take Alchemical Philosopher levels, you are unable to advance significantly in High Alchemy without sacrificing a bunch of feats. Taking levels in the class means you sacrifice your other magic to gain abilities a pure wizard can replicate with less loss of versatility. That is why I explicitly removed feat limitations in Qualensturm's statistics block using the excuse of "Alchemy by Dark Desire." When I finally get around to constructing an explicit statistics block for Victor himself, balancing his implied level of ability with the limitations of the Alchemy rules could be tricky. A fix to Alchemical Philosopher and some other aspects of High Alchemy would be excellent.

What I will probably do is create some new formulas, new options for Philosophical Children, and also give the Alchemical Philosopher back its spellcasting progression. What the Alchemical Philosopher gets in terms of Alchemical Formulae doesn't justify the complete loss of spellcasting progression. If you had to rank Alchemical Philosopher in a tier, its probably tier 6 - the worst of the worst. There is also no capstone ability to the class, which is a real shame.

I don't think the Alchemical Philosopher needs a complete rework, it just needs fine tuning and adjustments to make it a viable option for both PCs and NPCs.

I have some fluff ideas for Alchemical Philosopher's in the Ravenloft setting.

*An Alchemical Lodge in Paridon. This lodge is in a secret war with the doppelgangers. In their secret war they use Enlightened Children brewed up from doppelganger flesh samples. The leader of the lodge himself has 'ascended' into the form of a doppelganger enlightened child, with all the powers of a doppelganger and his own memories, via the use of essential coagulant.
*The Stepford Wives are a trope that should be in Ravenloft, and Philosophical Children fit the bill. I've already created a "refinement" for Enlightened Children for this purpose. Wet nurse (Ex): The child (female only) is able to produce breast milk. This allows the feeding of babies but does not enable the child to become pregnant.
*Not all Alchemical Philosophers are evil or of questionable morality. One Alchemical Philosopher uses philosopher purifier and innocence coagulant to produce Philosophical Children that are the enemies of darkness. Incorruptible and relentless, they never stop fighting evil.

tomokaicho wrote:I don't think the Alchemical Philosopher needs a complete rework, it just needs fine tuning and adjustments to make it a viable option for both PCs and NPCs.

I wonder if there is a good middle ground, where the questionable mechanic of trading a feat to learn just one special potion can be replaced without completely trashing the Alchemical Philosopher as written. I agree that the class will still need independent adjustments to make it desirable.

Perhaps the bonus formulae can be handled like automatic wizard spells. At any time, a wizard with access to a spell and the necessary resources can copy it into his or her spellbook, but besides that, a wizard gains 2 spells ate each level automatically through abstracted personal study. Likewise, any lesser alchemist may learn a formula given access and resources, but an Alchemical Philosopher gets automatic formulae at each level due to experimentation assumed to occur during the game. Thus, the bonus formulae remain in the class progression as given, and they still give the Alchemical Philosopher a leg up on other alchemists, but gaining formulae in general is regulated by the scarcity of alchemical knowledge and the expense of research materials, rather than feat slots. As you said, some of the formulae are lame, so removing the feat cost could help make sure the formulae still see use.

Something like this would lead to easy conversion between the revised system and the original rules. In fact, the changes might be minor enough to contain in a single variant rule. In a few weeks when I have more time, I might try to flesh this out more. I am also interested in seeing if I can think up some quantum mechanics themed formulae.

Wolfglide wrote: Alchemical Philosopher gets automatic formulae at each level due to experimentation assumed to occur during the game

They already get 1 formulae per Alchemical Philosopher level. The problem is that they get no spellcasting advancement.

tomokaicho wrote:

Wolfglide wrote: Alchemical Philosopher gets automatic formulae at each level due to experimentation assumed to occur during the game

They already get 1 formulae per Alchemical Philosopher level. The problem is that they get no spellcasting advancement.

I think I obfuscated my own meaning. I am not suggesting giving more formulae to the Alchemical Philosopher; I am just revising the rationale behind the formulae they already get. I am trying to change the mechanic regulating accumulation of formulae without changing the practical advancement of the Alchemical Philosopher.

Regardless of how they get their additional formulae (bonus feats or otherwise), additional spellcasting or perhaps alchemically-themed class abilities are in order to make the class desirable.

Wolfglide wrote:
Regardless of how they get their additional formulae (bonus feats or otherwise), additional spellcasting or perhaps alchemically-themed class abilities are in order to make the class desirable.

I'll make a class capstone at level 10 that allows the progression of Alchemical Formulae past the end of the prestige class.

tomokaicho wrote:

Wolfglide wrote:
Regardless of how they get their additional formulae (bonus feats or otherwise), additional spellcasting or perhaps alchemically-themed class abilities are in order to make the class desirable.

I'll make a class capstone at level 10 that allows the progression of Alchemical Formulae past the end of the prestige class.

An option entirely compatible with the established rules; I suppose that could resolve the issue. People who dabble have to make some sacrifices for limited advancement, those who want expertise must take the class, and those who want to become masterful and unconstrained must take it all the way. When this capstone is figured out, I would be interested in seeing how it works.

Wolfglide wrote:An option entirely compatible with the established rules; I suppose that could resolve the issue. People who dabble have to make some sacrifices for limited advancement, those who want expertise must take the class, and those who want to become masterful and unconstrained must take it all the way. When this capstone is figured out, I would be interested in seeing how it works.

I am thinking of a mechanic to "purchase" additional known alchemical formulae with XP. The use of alchemical formulae are balanced anyway by GP and/or XP costs. The capstone will make the alchemical philosopher unconstrained, except by what he can afford to pay in XP to learn new alchemical formulae.

With new alchemical formulae, I want to avoid the duplication of spells. I don't want the alchemical formulae to be like that of the Pathfinder alchemist, it should be in accord with high alchemy of the Ravenloft setting. I think I will have a look at this homebrew by Kellus called Gramarie and see if there is anything I can get inspiration from.

tomokaicho wrote:I am thinking of a mechanic to "purchase" additional known alchemical formulae with XP. The use of alchemical formulae are balanced anyway by GP and/or XP costs. The capstone will make the alchemical philosopher unconstrained, except by what he can afford to pay in XP to learn new alchemical formulae.

Maybe let them also copy the formulas of other Alch-Phils, similar to copying spell books.
Of course finding one to teach you a 3rd Permutation formula would not be easy, let alone convincing them.