Café de Nuit

This has been on my mind awhile. As I explain in netbook projects I am working on an I’Cath gazetteer for the next quoth the raven. As part of it I am considering making a Fu Manchu style villain operating in Nova Vaasa. However, I am quite mindful that although Fu is technically a gothic villain he is also a product of naked racism in the yellow peril era. I’m concerned there isn’t a tasteful way to bring his archetype into Ravenloft without being offensive. As this isn’t the only example of racism in gothic horror, I would ask how mule fellow DMs handle issues like this when they arise. Thoughts?

The biggest issue with Fu Manchu isn't so much his characterization - people can be villains regardless of their ethnicity - but his visuals. Fu Manchu's physical design evokes a lot of racist caricature art from the 40s and 50s. So, step 1 for a Fu Manchu-esque villain that won't be blatantly racist (because, let's face it, in this day and age, you can't write anything that touches upon Asiatic visuals or styles without somebody whinging about): don't make him look like he came straight out of one of those old caricatures.

The other big issue is background. So long as he has a reason to be evil and you don't just use language that makes him seem evil because of his race, then you've got a villain and not a racist caricature.

Really, it's that simple: don't go overboard with the Chinese visuals, and make him more fleshed out than just "evil Chinese mystic".

No one protested for Pai Mei depiction in Kill Bill, thought, and he had many Fu-Manchuesque characteristiques, first of therm his moustaches.

Nobody raises this flag when stereotypical 'Transylvanian' peasants and townsfolk show up in Ravenloft material?



Ravenloft is made with tropes.
Gypises, superstitious villagers, evil aristocrats, etc. These are all things that flow from the source material, which is not only Gothic literature but old horror movies.

I'd say the Yellow Peril thing makes no sense in Ravenloft. Not because a cool Oriental Adventures villain doesn't work. Of course he can work just fine. But there's no China. There's no East Asia at all.
No mass immigration. No coolies. No opium dens in the East End of London. No Chinese workers in railways and mines in the non-existent Ravenloft United States.
No Western powers fighting to gain and hold control of trade concessions in China.
Lacking all the historical and social context, there simply is no Yellow Peril at all in Ravenloft. The racial stuff that the OP is concerned about isn't part of the setting.

If you want the archetype, first you have to figure out what it is.
Is it just Chinese style? That's not an archetype.

Fu Manchu is:

a criminal mastermind

an evil scientist

leader of a secret sect

a scary foreigner



Right?

So work all that into a Ravenloft villain, and don't worry at first about 'China.'

That's my advice.

I think a Fu Manchu Red Wizard, rival to Hazlik, makes a certain amount of sense.

EDIT

But if the OP wants to use I'Cath and Nova Vaasa...

Is the Fu Manchu-inpsired villain supposed to play to a ''Yellow Peril'' fear in a bunch of Nova Vasan PCs and in Nova Vaasan society?

Thank you all for your comments so far. I mostly share your thoughts- that what make Fu Manchu appealing are his intelligence and his eccentricities (sense of honor, use of archaic rather than modern weapons, fiendish traps, etc.). And gothic horror depends in part on atmosphere and setting so tropes and archetypes are important. I do think there is a line we can cross, though, and so I want to tread carefully on this subject.

As to my article, I’ll briefly address your questions. One decision I made early in writing was that I’Cath had a human population when it entered Ravenloft. Tsien’s own history says she annexed several provinces, and there’s no way she could have killed her Emperor unless she was in his court, surrounded by his soldiers and horrified scholar officials. The reason I’Cath is said to be mostly abandoned is that the Cathese chose the Mist over staying in the land of the mad witch. So there are pockets of their population scattered among other domains. There are I’Cath towns in the back alleys of Nova Vaasa cities, where the Cathese make out a squalid living. Since the grand conjunction some Vaasi have used the Cathese as a scape goat for the disaster. Prince Othmar and Malken may be seeking to encourage an opium addiction in the population so that they can foster a malleable work force to produce exotic goods and perform hard labor on the cheap.

nothri wrote:Thank you all for your comments so far. I mostly share your thoughts- that what make Fu Manchu appealing are his intelligence and his eccentricities (sense of honor, use of archaic rather than modern weapons, fiendish traps, etc.). And gothic horror depends in part on atmosphere and setting so tropes and archetypes are important. I do think there is a line we can cross, though, and so I want to tread carefully on this subject.

As to my article, I’ll briefly address your questions. One decision I made early in writing was that I’Cath had a human population when it entered Ravenloft. Tsien’s own history says she annexed several provinces, and there’s no way she could have killed her Emperor unless she was in his court, surrounded by his soldiers and horrified scholar officials. The reason I’Cath is said to be mostly abandoned is that the Cathese chose the Mist over staying in the land of the mad witch. So there are pockets of their population scattered among other domains. There are I’Cath towns in the back alleys of Nova Vaasa cities, where the Cathese make out a squalid living. Since the grand conjunction some Vaasi have used the Cathese as a scape goat for the disaster. Prince Othmar and Malken may be seeking to encourage an opium addiction in the population so that they can foster a malleable work force to produce exotic goods and perform hard labor on the cheap.

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I like it!

You can always include sympathetic Cathese NPCs. It sounds like most are refugees and slum-dwellers.
Among these exiles will be ruthless opportunists and crooks, the men who run protection rackets targeting Cathese small traders, kidnap girls for the seraglio trade to Hazlan, deal in opium, and fink for the Nova Vaasan authorities.
But I'd guess most Cathese are decent folks in a tough situation.

Otherness is actually a core part of Ravenloft. Look at outsider ratings, for example.

There are also opportunities for shades of grey. Is Fu really evil? Or is what is seen as "evil" just Fu looking out for his people?

I would resist self censorship because there is too much of it going around.

'Otherness', for sure.


Just not the Yellow Peril.

But a Cathese Peril can be created in Nova Vaasa, using the OP's ideas.

1 Humans? Sure, they are humans, not twisted subhuman creatures like gnomes or elves. But they are foreigners with weird religious ideas, clearly not Lawgiver compliant. Will they undermine our society with their heathen cults?

2 They claim to be refugees from some place beyond he Mists. How many more might be waiting to come through? Once the infiltrators have prepared a way...

Oh, and , yeah Fu Manchu is really evil.

''Looking out for my people'' is always a good excuse or bit of PR for a villain, of course. A villain may even see himself that way. He's still a baddie.


In Ravenloft, Fu Manchu would be rolling powers checks on a regular basis.

I'm interested to see what the OP develops.

EDIT

Strong agreement on avoiding self-censorship.

Of course one should follow forum rules and submission guidelines. Past that, I wouldn't worry much about off-topic and irrelevant things. Nobody whose opinion should concern an author/game designer thinks that that a Fu Manchu-inspired villain in a fictional game setting is an endorsement of antiquated 'Yellow Peril' fears. It's just a game, and not even one set on Earth. One presumes nobody thinks witch trials in Tepest are an insidious call to revive witch trials in contemporary New England, eh?
Again, it's just a game.

It's possible that Fu might be a villain AND a protector of his people. Perhaps only Fu is able to protect his people from the predations of both Prince Othmar and Malkin.

Sure, his fellow Cathayans must show him deference or else, but it's better than being dead or totally enslaved.

tomokaicho wrote:It's possible that Fu might be a villain AND a protector of his people. Perhaps only Fu is able to protect his people from the predations of both Prince Othmar and Malkin.

Sure, his fellow Cathayans must show him deference or else, but it's better than being dead or totally enslaved.

Indeed.

And of course, steps must be taken to make certain any heroes who arise from within the Cathese population become minions of 'Fu'--or else are eliminated by the 'cruel Vaasi.'
Only Fu can protect you.

There is one legit Yellow Peril style threat (which in iluniverse I’m calling “the Jade Horror” just to be totally tongue in cheek about it) I can think of. Agents of Tsien Chiang would actively be seeking to topple governments in the Core in the name of conquest. Said agents are probably looking for ways to dominate Cathese communities as well as Western powers, if not pit one against the other.

nothri wrote:There is one legit Yellow Peril style threat (which in iluniverse I’m calling “the Jade Horror” just to be totally tongue in cheek about it) I can think of. Agents of Tsien Chiang would actively be seeking to topple governments in the Core in the name of conquest. Said agents are probably looking for ways to dominate Cathese communities as well as Western powers, if not pit one against the other.

One thing to remember about Fu (from later materials) is that he was a member of the Chinese Emperor's family who lost after the Boxer rebellion. With a bit of tweaking it can easily be mixed in with Tsien. She killed the Emperor (Raven Fu's relative) forcing him to flee. And now he is trying to build up the power to take it back using the 'Laowai' as useful pawns while at the same time trying to cut off Tsien's incursions into his power base.

You could easily end up with an Illuminati level mix of conspiracies running through the core. Tsien has the advantage in that her powerbase is mostly unassailable, yet she lacks the hands on touch and relies on minions due to being stuck in I'Cath. Raven Fu can give an operation the personal touch and adapt quickly, but also has the other powers not happy with his meddling and causing problems in addition to Tsien.

DustBunny wrote: And now he is trying to build up the power to take it back using the 'Laowai' as useful pawns while at the same time trying to cut off Tsien's incursions into his power base.

Hate to nickpick, but if a Chinese word is to be used for the non-Cathayans, it should be 鬼佬 (GuiLao) not the friendlier 老外 (LaoWai).

Its too easy to create a scenario where Cathayans are the mere victims without agency of the Eurocentric Core, so it is better that hostility, even unconscious, goes both ways.