Café de Nuit

I find this organization intriguing (though I'm disappointed by the fact that the requirement for members to be able to cast illusions excludes Arcanists from their ranks) and I'm curious to hear how others have used this organization in their campaigns. As the Big Bad? As a conspiracy for the PC's to unravel? As an occasional enemy or even a one-time foe? And have you used the only detailed member of the Umbra, the five man leadership council?

Previous thread on the subject:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9604
(actually, looks like you started that one too. Don't worry, it was over a year ago. That happens to all of us sometimes...)

Of course, there may be some more answers now... so, let's start the discussion again.

Note that the other members of the Umbra (or at least, one take on them) have been detailed in our netbooks: Quoth the Raven 10 and 13, and the USS 2002.

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Previous thread on the subject:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9604
(actually, looks like you started that one too. Don't worry, it was over a year ago. That happens to all of us sometimes...)

Of course, there may be some more answers now... so, let's start the discussion again.

Note that the other members of the Umbra (or at least, one take on them) have been detailed in our netbooks: Quoth the Raven 10 and 13, and the USS 2002.

Do'h ! My memory has failed me! Thanks for pointing it out and being kind about it .

Still, since this topic is back, I would like to say that I use the FoS as "background noise" in my campaigns; antagonists but being far less important, powerful or influential than they think they are. I also use FoS-inspired fraternities in other worlds than Ravenloft.

Why would Arcanists be excluded? I thought they could cast any Sor./Wiz.-list spell.

Rock wrote:Why would Arcanists be excluded? I thought they could cast any Sor./Wiz.-list spell.

They can only cast Necromancy, Divination, Abjuration, and Conjuration/Summoning spells.

I always thought their geeking out over illusion spells was kinda stupid. I can't remember but I think they avoid necromancy and the like because it's dangerous and corrupting. However, illusion is hardly any better, or at least illusion (shadow) spells since there's always a chance they spawn into an undead shadow after they end. Has this discrepancy ever been addressed?

Garudos Celestar wrote:

Rock wrote:Why would Arcanists be excluded? I thought they could cast any Sor./Wiz.-list spell.

They can only cast Necromancy, Divination, Abjuration, and Conjuration/Summoning spells.

I didn't see that anywhere?

The Lesser Evil wrote:I always thought their geeking out over illusion spells was kinda stupid. I can't remember but I think they avoid necromancy and the like because it's dangerous and corrupting. However, illusion is hardly any better, or at least illusion (shadow) spells since there's always a chance they spawn into an undead shadow after they end. Has this discrepancy ever been addressed?

Not that I'm aware of. I thought the focus on Illusion was so they could continue to do their work behind the scenes, 'in the shadows' as it were, and as a philosophical statement: the Fraternity does not want to expose all the secrets, lies and plots, they want to master them.
As for avoiding Necromancy; I agree, it corrupts. Possibly they feel going undead makes you more vulnerable to the influence of the Dark Powers, and the Fraternity wants to rule, not serve evil.

Rock wrote:

Garudos Celestar wrote:

Rock wrote:Why would Arcanists be excluded? I thought they could cast any Sor./Wiz.-list spell.

They can only cast Necromancy, Divination, Abjuration, and Conjuration/Summoning spells.

I didn't see that anywhere?

I think you're crossing editions here. I'm pretty sure Garudos is talking about the 2e Arcanist. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and get my Domains of Dread to confirm, though.


In any case, I think the obsession with illusion is because Shadow magic is considered part of the illusion school, and they believe that the demiplane is spun from Shadow. by tampering with illusion, they are actually getting closer to the true power that makes the world work, and in doing so, can hope to bend the world to their wills. Necromancy is for amateurs. It's messy and unreliable, like biology. The FoS see themselves more like physicists, trying to unlock the power of the building blocks of matter itself. Then it drifts into metaphyics too: if we exist in a constructed world, what is true? And if nothing is truly true, then isn't illusion the greatest of truths? Are not the Dark Powers the greatest illusionists of all?

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:

Rock wrote:

Garudos Celestar wrote:They can only cast Necromancy, Divination, Abjuration, and Conjuration/Summoning spells.

I didn't see that anywhere?

I think you're crossing editions here. I'm pretty sure Garudos is talking about the 2e Arcanist. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and get my Domains of Dread to confirm, though.

Ah, that'd do it. I didn't start playing until 3rd ed. My oldest game resource is the commemorative 1st ed. PHB. ^_^;

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote: they believe that the demiplane is spun from Shadow.

The last 2 editions proved them right!

Also they don't just snob on necromancy; the same could be said for alteration for example. They downright forbid it. I don't recall my early lore but from what I vaguely remember, they are afraid of the corruption necromancy brings as stated earlier in the thread.

Undead do fall to the whispers of the Dark Powers more easily than the living.
And once you start leaning on Necromancy, it's not long before the idea of extending your existence through undeath starts humming around your head....

The original Fraternity of Shadows writeup (in Domains of Dread) specified that all the members must be able to cast illusion spells, and that the leaders were all illusionists. Under 2e rules, that meant no necromancers and the leaders can't cast necromantic spells.

When I did the netbook writeup, I ran with that because 1) Ravenloft is oversupplied with necromancers already, 2) it seemed like an interesting point to build around. The ideas that I came up with for why they avoid necromancy have already been mentioned, but, to recap, they're extreme solipsists and Platonists, and they think that "mind over matter" is actually a natural law--maybe the fundamental natural law--of the Land of Mists. In addition, they've noticed that necromancers tend "draw the attention of the Watchers"--that is, result in Powers Checks--which makes it something to avoid.

The fact that shadow magic gets close to necromancy in some ways, and that they pretty much ignore this, is one element of their institutional hypocrisy.

One of my regrets is that there was never a netbook compilation of the other, more minor FoS members that populated the Evening with the Fraternity. I mean, after all, a campaign typically needs rather more rank-and-file than it does high Umbra.

I suppose by this point too much of the info has passed from memory to make a really proper writeup of it though.