Café de Nuit

Mephisto wrote:"The last realm teased is called Valachan, where the darklord Chakuna relentlessly hunts down player characters for sport."

Firstly we had Verbrek for that hunger games thing. And Von Kharkov was one of my favourite darklords storywise but also I really liked his total control of his domain, having learned a lot as a veteran Kargat vampire. His portrait by Stephen Fabian is one of my favourite depictions of a Darklord . Chakuna's name was probably inspired by chakana (or Inca Cross) that is suggested to represent the other two levels of existence. So I guess it follows up the Andean-inspired version of Valachan of 3rd edition but still I wonder why reinvent a domain to be similar to Verbrek and then don't include Drakov because there is already a Vlad the Impaler inspired darklord in Barovia, while being practically totally different (Strahd being a kind of an elegant recluse while Vlad is a brute who wants to be cheered or at least feared to feed his ego).

I think it's pretty obvious why Von Kharkov had to go.

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:
*The book will also include a lengthy section on setting safe boundaries to keep everyone comfortable at the table.

It's a game, not BDSM.

I think 'know your players and don't be a jerk' is sufficient. Eight words.

ewancummins wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:
*The book will also include a lengthy section on setting safe boundaries to keep everyone comfortable at the table.

It's a game, not BDSM.

I think 'know your players and don't be a jerk' is sufficient. Eight words.

But then they can't pontificate on how accepting and nurturing they are and how you, who have been playing the game for years and know about table ettiquette, need to shut up and know your place because these saviors of decency and morality are better than you and you should know your place, silly gamer.

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:

ewancummins wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:
*The book will also include a lengthy section on setting safe boundaries to keep everyone comfortable at the table.

It's a game, not BDSM.

I think 'know your players and don't be a jerk' is sufficient. Eight words.

But then they can't pontificate on how accepting and nurturing they are and how you, who have been playing the game for years and know about table etiquette, need to shut up and know your place because these saviors of decency and morality are better than you and you should know your place, silly gamer.

True.

And, really, bigot, think of the children.

Five wrote: I dunno. I always liked Falkovnia, but always thought the developers blew its potential. Maybe this "year zero" will finally raise it up to the same standard as the other domains.

I disagree Vigo Drakov, Gongegal, Drakov II and his vampyre orgies, vampyre infestations, demi-human slavery, gladiator fights, ancient outlander tombs, the dark cities beneath, freedom fighters, Wizard Tower of Lekar, Spawn of the Lizard, human experimentation and werecreature supersoldiers, kargat spies, Vlad himself.

While I agree it sort of blows that they are seemingly ignoring all of the continuity of past editions, I never expected them to basically continue Sword & Sorcery's work on the setting. That was a different companies' take. They were interested in giving Ravenloft a gritty, somewhat realistic feel to it (which I loved).

Wizards wants to make it accessible to everyone, so I can understand gong this route. It does seem weird to have a lengthy section on making it safe. Seems like people who would buy this supplement are already comfortable & interested in playing a horror setting. But Wizards have done a lot of apologizing over the last couple of years. I guess that's just the way the world is now. It's why people get pissed at Bill Maher, even though he's a liberal. Can't say things to upset people these days.

I'm still going to buy it just see what's there.

MOD HAT ON: Alright guys, I'm going to ask that we reign in a bit on the SJW/wokeness/Political Correctness/Virtue Signaling comments. I realize it's difficult when all we have to speculate on are small crumbs. But lets please not let another 5e thread spiral out of control that way. I'm not going to delete anything at this point, but consider your points made on that subject and move on, please.

ewancummins wrote:
True.

And, really, bigot, think of the children.

D&D has taken a turn for the worse over the last 12 months or so.

It just seems the writers have no creativity themselves, and this just proves it. They can't handle allegory or subtlety, it has to be plain as day, black and white, good and bad.

And because websites like Polygon or Dicebreaker et al. are literally ran by their friends, they get slapped on the back and told their doing a good job and we get told that because the people reporting on it don't want to make their friends look bad.

And then they're handed a prize product like Ravenloft, which has a rich history, over 100 books of backstory and lore they can look at and interpret in new and interesting ways, but instead they say, "Oh, you're going to be horrible to your players because you're a bad person, let's tell you how not to be because we are so good and virtuous," and then proceed to rewrite all of the characters they've announced because they don't have the talent or ability to be creative on their own.

I don't want a "Domains of Dread 5e", I want to see the setting furthered and find out what's gone on. But this isn't that. This is not a continuation of Ravenloft, this is hack writers in over their heads spoiling something they don't understand. It's Tadd McDivvitt and Champions of Darkness all over again. And that was lead by developers who didn't care and just gave writing gigs to their friends (which McDivvitt admitted to me at the time in private messages on the Kargatane, when I raged about the quality of CoD, but unfortunately I don't have access to those messages any more).

Edited: You think I'd have learnt in the, what? 14 years?, since I blew up at the Dark Duo to be calm before I post...

ewancummins wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:
*The book will also include a lengthy section on setting safe boundaries to keep everyone comfortable at the table.

It's a game, not BDSM.

I think 'know your players and don't be a jerk' is sufficient. Eight words.

Right. But how do you know your players if you don't ask?

Not everyone advertises their phobias and traumas. Tells you about their PTSD. Some people who dislike spiders might enjoy being creeped out by an ettercap themed adventure, others might nope right out and feel betrayed that you'd use their fear against them.

Establishing hard and soft lines (lines and veils) is horror game 101. A section on that is mandatory in every horror RPG and has been for the better part of the last decade.

Jester of the FoS wrote: Right. But how do you know your players if you don't ask?

Not everyone advertises their phobias and traumas. Tells you about their PTSD. Some people who dislike spiders might enjoy being creeped out by an ettercap themed adventure, others might nope right out and feel betrayed that you'd use their fear against them.

Establishing hard and soft lines (lines and veils) is horror game 101. A section on that is mandatory in every horror RPG and has been for the better part of the last decade.

But if you tell your players "I'd like to run a horror game set in a gothic setting," they are forewarned that it's not going to be high fantasy adventure. There are going to be grim and unpleasant things. It's up to me to tell them that the adventure might have mature themes, it's up to them if they want to play. It is perfectly acceptable to say to a player, "I don't think you could handle the themes of this game, so I think you should sit this one out."

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: I don't want a "Domains of Dread 5e", I want to see the setting furthered and find out what's gone on. But this isn't that. This is not a continuation of Ravenloft, this is hack writers in over their heads spoiling something they don't understand. It's Tadd McDivvitt and Champions of Darkness all over again. And that was lead by developers who didn't care and just gave writing gigs to their friends (which McDivvitt admitted to me at the time in private messages on the Kargatane, when I raged about the quality of CoD, but unfortunately I don't have access to those messages any more).

I wonder if the new Ravenloft book will have a new domain inspired by corporations...

Mephisto wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: I don't want a "Domains of Dread 5e", I want to see the setting furthered and find out what's gone on. But this isn't that. This is not a continuation of Ravenloft, this is hack writers in over their heads spoiling something they don't understand. It's Tadd McDivvitt and Champions of Darkness all over again. And that was lead by developers who didn't care and just gave writing gigs to their friends (which McDivvitt admitted to me at the time in private messages on the Kargatane, when I raged about the quality of CoD, but unfortunately I don't have access to those messages any more).

I wonder if the new Ravenloft book will have a new domain inspired by corporations...

Haha

Deep in the bowels of Castle Skullscroll...

Jester of the FoS wrote:

ewancummins wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:
*The book will also include a lengthy section on setting safe boundaries to keep everyone comfortable at the table.

It's a game, not BDSM.

I think 'know your players and don't be a jerk' is sufficient. Eight words.

Right. But how do you know your players if you don't ask?

Not everyone advertises their phobias and traumas. Tells you about their PTSD. Some people who dislike spiders might enjoy being creeped out by an ettercap themed adventure, others might nope right out and feel betrayed that you'd use their fear against them.

Establishing hard and soft lines (lines and veils) is horror game 101. A section on that is mandatory in every horror RPG and has been for the better part of the last decade.

I don't play new school hipster games nobody's ever heard of, so I wouldn't know. But in most games I have seen you get at most a sidebar or small box in the front of the book. Palladium Games does not endorse drug use, the occult, etc.

Five wrote:

Mephisto wrote:

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: I don't want a "Domains of Dread 5e", I want to see the setting furthered and find out what's gone on. But this isn't that. This is not a continuation of Ravenloft, this is hack writers in over their heads spoiling something they don't understand. It's Tadd McDivvitt and Champions of Darkness all over again. And that was lead by developers who didn't care and just gave writing gigs to their friends (which McDivvitt admitted to me at the time in private messages on the Kargatane, when I raged about the quality of CoD, but unfortunately I don't have access to those messages any more).

I wonder if the new Ravenloft book will have a new domain inspired by corporations...

Haha

Deep in the bowels of Castle Skullscroll...

lie the remains of TSR, it's spirit is cursed to watch as it's legacy is being destroyed by the Wizard of the Coast (Human Defiler lvl 12) and Hasbro (Ogre Thief lvl 20).

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:

Jester of the FoS wrote: Right. But how do you know your players if you don't ask?

Not everyone advertises their phobias and traumas. Tells you about their PTSD. Some people who dislike spiders might enjoy being creeped out by an ettercap themed adventure, others might nope right out and feel betrayed that you'd use their fear against them.

Establishing hard and soft lines (lines and veils) is horror game 101. A section on that is mandatory in every horror RPG and has been for the better part of the last decade.

But if you tell your players "I'd like to run a horror game set in a gothic setting," they are forewarned that it's not going to be high fantasy adventure. There are going to be grim and unpleasant things. It's up to me to tell them that the adventure might have mature themes, it's up to them if they want to play. It is perfectly acceptable to say to a player, "I don't think you could handle the themes of this game, so I think you should sit this one out."

Yup.

Jester's view may legitimately differ, of course but a 'lengthy' section on this stuff sounds like a big waste of word count, to me. I don't need it and I don't think any competent adult DM does. Nor does this sound like a product aimed at kids aged 12+.