Game of Thrones - the TV series

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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

yeah, you're safe for Book 2 if you're caught up on the show. There's still quite a bit of Book 3 left unshown, but unless you've got tons of reading time, you probably wouldn't be able to get through book 2 and enough of book 3 to catch up before season's end.


Loved the season premiere. Nothing too earth-shattering. Another "where is everyone now" ep, but some great moments. Alhoon:
VIEW CONTENT:
Did the attempt to include a version of Arya's "Is there gold in the village?" bit assuage you at all from missing it before? I know you weren't happy it was cut from last season. Not the same victim or the same words, but I thought they did a good job with the feel of the scene.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Westeros... another day, another wedding, ho hum... ;)
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Zilfer »

The.... "Purple Wedding" you mean? xD Since he turned all purple at the end.... xD
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

Found the time to watch the first half of the series!

Gonzoron: Nope it didn't. Nor did the finale of episode 1.
They humanize Arya a great deal more in the series. One of the reasons she's my favorite is how she turning from a care-free tomgirl that put dead things in Sansa's bed to an emotion-less creature animated by a sense of justice and kept going by hate. The book 1 Arya is still in there, but looking back, it's not the same person.
Well, in the series half of that is missing.
VIEW CONTENT:
And a pivotal moment, a step forward from ordering deaths because they were just to committing them because it was convenient was that incident with the coin, when she kills one of Robb's guards just because he was on the way and she didn't like the man's lord. On the contrary, the random encounter on the road they shoe-horned in didn't do it justice at all.
However, avenge-killing Polliver while he was begging for his life... was better. Still, that was not as character-defining as killing in cold blood a soldier sworn to one of your brother's generals just to get away before it's too late.




Jaime:
VIEW CONTENT:
About "Jaime" with the Valyrian sword. Why the change? I liked the original scene and the original sword

But damn, Jaime has spine. Actually that scene was better in the show than the book IMO.

Jaime-Cersey showdown: She sounds even more crazy in the show than usual, so it must be from the book.
"You took too long" I laughed my butt off at that.

Tyrion:
VIEW CONTENT:
Did they played down in the show the arrival of several prominent Dornish houses and the treat they posed or was I mistaken?
I also don't get why the show changed prince Oberyn's (the red viper of Dorne) arrival. Prefered the meeting on the road as in the book.

Also Oberyn's tale of kid-Cersei's cruelty. I LOVE to hate her. I wish it was in the show.

They also keep changing Shae, making her disgruntled more and more with Tyrion. Trouble, fights... they were screwing around (literally) and all seems well in the book.
Arya:
VIEW CONTENT:
From her chapter: she's not processing the grief well. In the show she seems way better (and way more cold-blooded killer) than in the book.
And the hound seems ... less angry in the show for losing his money. He seems just kinda irked instead of a boiling pit of anger.

And that fight in the bar... Clegane seems the only combat-worthy person there, with proper armor and weapons. Add his experience, that his enemies were drunk and I can't understand how they fell him.
Not to mention... he's condition at the end of the episode. :/ By Arya's chapter he should be quite worse to say the least.


EPISODE 2

Jaime
VIEW CONTENT:
Can't find him training in the book...
Wedding
VIEW CONTENT:
Grandma Olena was a close tie with the last verified Stark... not surprising.
A very fine Cersei moment (didn't find it in the book) when she wants Pycel to feed the leftovers to the dog or feeding them with himself.
Should have expected her sour mood with the wedding and the developments with Jaime... How DARE he save other women while he took too long to save himself.
EPISODE 3

Jaime
VIEW CONTENT:
O_O Sicko
And in the book, Cersei is even WORSE Sicko... I can't believe she (book) wanted and commited incest next to her dead child. I mean... no way. That's breaking believability.

And Jaime... THAT'S what was in his mind over his dead son's body? Not to mention that Show-Jaime actually raped his sister.
Arya:
Eh... what? Here we are adding and changing stuff of my favorite character for no reason...

Daenerys:
First, I like the new Daharis more.
VIEW CONTENT:
Powerful scene that with the colars.
EPISODE 4

Daenerys:
VIEW CONTENT:
THAT easily they got the city? Not even 10 mins of show-time. Not even 5...
In the book, it says they got in a day but I didn't read that whole chapter. Just that they rammed the rivergate.
Jaime the sicko:
VIEW CONTENT:
Why doesn't he don a SHIELD in that arm? It's not just useless, it's dangerous

Tyrion-Jaime scene was very nice. Yet, I expected Jaime to be devastated, not able to hide his emotions behind a wall. In the book, he's totally, utterly lost. Disinherited, abadoned by his love and lost his firstborn.

About Cersei (who can hardly walk from the alcohol...) she's reasonably stricken mad with grief. At least now she has an excuse to act mad as Cersei.

About Bryanne... a valyrian steel sword and a good suit of armor AND a squire. That would be worth like a couple minor houses. Repaying his debts? Or realizing that being decent, loyal person is a good thing? I would say... repaying his debts.
Jon Snow:
VIEW CONTENT:
When did Locke get there?
Tommen:
VIEW CONTENT:
Even with the "adjusted" age for kids in the show, wasn't tomen supposed to be like 9-10? A bit older than Arya? He seems to be in his 13.
And seriously, how did Margerey pass the kingsguard a couple of days after the previous king was murdered? Cersei was right.

Poor kid Tommen. They all see him as a pawn. I doupt he will even be his own man. He seems a good lad. Too good lad. He would be happier IMO as the son of a minor lord, a septon or meister than a king.


EPISODE 5

Cersei-Margarey
VIEW CONTENT:
Ohhh...the looks. I wonder when people say they hate their in-laws, have they considered the fictional, yes, but have they considered the mother-in-law of Margarey?

Daenerys
VIEW CONTENT:
Her hold on cities broken then moment she turned her back. Not that shocking considering that she went against centuries (if not millenia) of tradition.

Also it wasn't a pro-equality time Daenerys. Queens didn't rule; Queens got married.
Sansa
VIEW CONTENT:
Anyone else has the feeling that Robin the spoiled brat#2 will eventually fly down the moon gate? I would love to see that

And seriously, how many Tully girls Little-finger has been with in his past when he was next-to-nobody? I'll give him a high-five if possible, especially for waking up Sansa. He knows what's his doing in bed too it seems.

EDIT: Meh, I read the last chapter in book 3, where Lysa explains what happened and which Tully girl Littlefinger deflowered. Oh, well.
Tywin
VIEW CONTENT:
O_O
ehh... what? The mines ran dry 3 years ago? I thought they were repaying their debts, not making more.
Where is that in the book? I would certainly want to read more about it. Is it in book 4? Should I borrow that one too?
Arya ... I guess we get expanded story for her. Well, it's not a bad story.
VIEW CONTENT:
Well, the hound is right. Armor matters
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Zilfer »

lol! that is very blunt of the hound. :D
VIEW CONTENT:
As for the future queen getting into the king's chamber in the scene right before they say there is only 1 guard, guarding the king. Cersei berates Jaime for leaving his post, and he assured her he had still left a guard..... yes... worried about an assassin? No. xD
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

alhoon wrote: They humanize Arya a great deal more in the series.
They humanize a lot of characters more in the series: Cersei, Theon, Varys...
VIEW CONTENT:
alhoon wrote:About "Jaime" with the Valyrian sword. Why the change? I liked the original scene and the original sword
Not sure what change you mean, other than the change we already knew about: that Jaime is there (and gets the sword) before Joffrey's wedding. He still gets the sword (and still gives it to Brienne) in the book, it's just a bit later. Chapter 73, but don't read it yet, there are minor spoilers there.
alhoon wrote: Actually that scene was better in the show than the book IMO.
As is nearly every Tywin scene. Charles Dance is awesome.


Tyrion:
VIEW CONTENT:
I also don't get why the show changed prince Oberyn's (the red viper of Dorne) arrival. Prefered the meeting on the road as in the book.
Character conservation, I think. They cut down on a lot of the dignitary characters that came for the wedding because many of them are ultimately unimportant.
Also Oberyn's tale of kid-Cersei's cruelty. I LOVE to hate her. I wish it was in the show.
Relax, it's in episode 7(?).
EPISODE 2

Jaime
VIEW CONTENT:
Can't find him training in the book...
It's pulled in from Book 4. Though, it's not Bronn, it's..
VIEW CONTENT:
Ilyn Payne, but the actor who plays him has cancer, and likely won't be back on the show. Payne made more sense, since Bronn is more likely to talk :!: but the scenes are more fun with some banter.
Wedding
VIEW CONTENT:
A very fine Cersei moment (didn't find it in the book) when she wants Pycel to feed the leftovers to the dog or feeding them with himself.
I don't think that's in the book.
EPISODE 3

Jaime
VIEW CONTENT:
O_O Sicko
And in the book, Cersei is even WORSE Sicko... I can't believe she (book) wanted and commited incest next to her dead child. I mean... no way. That's breaking believability.
Welcome to A Song of Ice and Fire.... :) Yeah, Cersei is pretty irredeemable at that point the book.
And Jaime... THAT'S what was in his mind over his dead son's body? Not to mention that Show-Jaime actually raped his sister.
Yup. This scene was quite controversial around the 'nets. The creators apparently intended it to be "consensual by the end," which still sounds like rape at the start to me, and wasn't at all apparent in the show. Did not like.
Daenerys:
First, I like the new Daharis more.
Eh. I don't. I mean, I like the actor, but the 1st one was more "pretty boy" like the books implied.

EPISODE 4
Jaime the sicko:
VIEW CONTENT:
In the book, he's totally, utterly lost. Disinherited, abadoned by his love and lost his firstborn.
I think it's the same here. He just internalizes it a lot, and we don't get to hear his thoughts like in the book. I think the actor does a great job showing it.
Repaying his debts? Or realizing that being decent, loyal person is a good thing? I would say... repaying his debts.
I would say a bit of repaying debts, and a bit of seeing the good knight he might have been in her and helping her achieve that when he's too far gone to do so.
Jon Snow:
VIEW CONTENT:
When did Locke get there?
In the books: never. In the show: right about now. :)
Tommen:
VIEW CONTENT:
And seriously, how did Margerey pass the kingsguard a couple of days after the previous king was murdered? Cersei was right.
a) they are incompetent. (3 kings killed in office in a row?) and b) she's hot. :)
EPISODE 5
Tywin
VIEW CONTENT:
O_O
ehh... what? The mines ran dry 3 years ago? I thought they were repaying their debts, not making more.
Where is that in the book?
It's not. :(
Is it in book 4? Should I borrow that one too?
Not this, but some other bits and pieces (like Cersei meeting Qyburn, Brienne meeting up with Podrick, etc.). But there are spoilers aplenty for the end of book 3 there, so I would avoid it until the end of the season.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

About episode 3, the controversial scene:
VIEW CONTENT:
As I said, it completely breaks believability. Both in the book and in the series. I've been unfortunate enough to see 3 sets of parents that lost one of their children. I can assure you that at the funeral, there was nothing on their minds; not just absence of lust, nothing. No thought of sex, ambition... nothing. Self preservation was almost out of the window too; All of them had to be reminded to eat for days.

I understand that both the Lannister twins are WAY more jaded (having ordered executions of babies, thrown children out of windows, stabbing the king they were sworn to protect in the back etc) but this? THIS?

I can understand that Jaime didn't break his silence starting to shout "No! My kid! My firstborn! OMG! No! " etc.
I could perhaps understand if they were crying together, hugged, later that night they met and hugged again, lied on the same bed and cried together and one thing led to the next in either the book or the show.
But what happened is the low point of the book/show for me. It would be more realistic if Jaime regrew his hand or Cersei sprew wings.
How they managed to add necrophilia, incest and rape in one scene is incredulous.

As far as consensual goes: When a woman beats you off, cries, and says "no! Stop!" etc, I know that you're supposed to stop. Book Cersei beat him a bit, but quickly dropped her underwear. Show Cersei kept crying for him to stop and he overpowered her with the weight of his body. I can't see how that could be count as consensual in the show.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

EPISODE 9


Sam & Jon
VIEW CONTENT:
Is the whole episode made for the series?
As for Sam's promise to not die... well, he'd turn to a white walker, wouldn't he? So his promise is valid. :P
Anyway, did those things on the wall happen after the mission?

I've reached a part where Jon is sent to kill a certain someone to prove his innocense.
The discussion they have about that someone's plans. I actually... prefer the series version. A fight and Jon taking the decision on his own.

Also loved the part with Tomund in the end.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

VIEW CONTENT:
alhoon wrote:Is the whole episode made for the series?
Not completely. It's quite different than the book, but most of the moments are culled from chapters 56, 65, and 70.
As for Sam's promise to not die... well, he'd turn to a white walker, wouldn't he? So his promise is valid. :P
Not a white walker, but possibly a Wight. The White Walkers (The Others, in the book) are the fey-like creatures that create the undead Wights from dead humans. In the series we see some sort of White Walker elite turning one of Craster's babies into a White Walker, but the books never touch on where they come from. Since Sam's not a baby, I'm guessing he can't become one of them, but he could rise as a wight.

I wasn't super thrilled with the episode. There were good moments, but some were botched. (I like Ygritte's death in the books 10x better.) And it all felt very action-movie-ish, and not very Game of Thrones-ish. Nice, but the stuff I'm really looking forward to is up next week, I think.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Zilfer »

Finally going to start reading the second book so :) think i'm going to read up to the end of the third book. :)
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

EPISODE 8
(Forgot to post that)

Sansa:
VIEW CONTENT:
I guess Little Finger's part is either in another book or made for the series.
In any case, did she so plausibly defended the man that killed her aunt or they changed it on the series since they didn't include the bard that probably took the blame in the book?

THe part of him convincing them to let a sickly boy of 8 or so to wander the vale with the wildlings and all, seemed genuine though.
The part about Sansa kinda leading him on? Is that in the books? She seems too... chaste, naive and childish to try to tempt a man with her beauty.

Daenerys
VIEW CONTENT:
Aren't the unsullied supposed to be beyond lust, aside of castrated? Like special training or that thing they drink that makes them painless?
Cause a man's lust doesn't come from the "pillar and stones".
In anycase, that were just 5 weird minutes that added nothing that couldn't be added in 2 minutes + some flesh showing.

I liked the scene where Barristan goes to Jorah, hand on sword and confronts him about his treachery. About Jorah's exile, I prefered the original book version although the series was good one too.
Also: Instead of 5 weird minutes in the bath scene, they could have added Daenerys crying etc after Jorah left her sight.
Arya:
She's more mad than the book... that's for sure.


The fight:
VIEW CONTENT:
I really liked it. Quite like the one in the book, with all the important stuff aside of the showing of the poison.

Of course, in both version we have a KNIGHT admiting in front of the Queen and the small council that he murdered children and raped a woman.
How on earth he expected to keep his head after that? Not that it will matter with the poison, but still?
Jaime's chapter after the fight:
VIEW CONTENT:
Ehh... who is the girl that is promised to Ramsey? She has to be a lady's daughter or something, else the ruse wouldn't pass.
At least we know what is in store for Clegane if he survives the poison, after confessing a multitude of crimes.

Man, he's revolting in his possessiveness of Cersei. And what's that about JOFFREY sending the assassin? I was sure it was littlefinger or at the very least, Varys.
To put it frankly, Joffrey was too stupid/sure of himself to think to frame someone.

Obviously, I don't need to get into how disgusting Cersei is. I found myself near my tolerance limits in that chapter with the way she talked. Even Jaime could (to a point) see through her truly disgusting attempts.
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

EPISODE 10:

Jon Snow
VIEW CONTENT:
I don't get that ... feeling of urgency from the wildlings in the series. The background of "OMG! We're screwed if we don't pass the waaaaall!"
Aside of Mance, it feels more like "OK, now that we banded together, let's get some revenge and conquer lands"
Mance scene was good, but it didn't include the horn. :( Nor the woman and child

As a note, cavalry in the woods? Not effective. They did a good job with portraying this battle though! Showing (probably CGI) large numbers from above and then... having 10-15 people on screen.

Well more or less I liked this scene (that combines the other scenes) more than the book. Faster. Although it would be better if we had seen Snow being pestered about Ned's honor and "treason".

BTW, is it me or Stannis delivered what Mance actually wanted? PROTECTION from the winter, even if it's in a prison camp? Also Stannis will speak to him, and along with Melissandre will probably figure about the white walkers
Cersei & Mountain
VIEW CONTENT:
Let me guess: A combination of many things, right? It seemed an awfully compacted scene full of info. Background for the I-forget-his-name that saved Jayme, info about the poison, hints of the Dark arts and "dangerous" experiments...
Also "changed" but not weakened on someone's deathbed? After accusation for dark practices... Will they turn him to a wight? Wouldn't that need... a white walker?
What book is that in?

Cersei and ... Tywin
No need for spoiler tags here: O_O
Taking it quite far, aren't they? Well, it was about time we saw Cersei showing her insanely-cruel-mama-bear claws.
I felt... pity for the poor man.

Cersei and Jaime:
I've watched many horror films and still that doesn't leave me as disgusted as their dialogues in that part. Seriously, I shouldn't have eaten before watching that, my food wasn't sitting well in my stomach.


Daenerys
VIEW CONTENT:
What is that with the slaves wanted to be re-sold? Is that in the books? Again, it stretches believability (although it HAS happened in very few cases in Roman republic with emanicipated slaves).
Old man, instead of being owned like a chair or goat, you can ask to simply live in his house and be fed in exchange of teaching his kids! And be free to choose! It's not slavery or squalor.

And when exactly the dragons escaped?!? How I missed that?
And why is she shown chaining the dragons? I thought after the incident with the sheep she would have reigned them in, when she was warned that they CANNOT be tamed...
Bran
VIEW CONTENT:
What that with the fey, the fireballs and the skeletons? Seems... unGoTish.
Arya and ... Bryenne
?!?!?
In any case
VIEW CONTENT:
In the book, I wasn't sure if Arya chickened out of killing the Hound and masqueraded it as revenge or if she really left him to die in pain just from spite. In the series it seems more ... out of spite.


Tyrion
Meh, way better in the book. At least they could have kept the banter. What is that with the show disappointing me in half my favorite scenes from the books?
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:EPISODE 8
Sansa:
VIEW CONTENT:
I guess Little Finger's part is either in another book or made for the series.
VIEW CONTENT:
They're getting into Book 4 stuff, here, (chapter 11, 24..) but you're right that the lack of the bard warps things a bit. That and they cut a lot of Vale politics. They might get into that next season. But overall, there is a sense in Book 4 that Sansa is (finally) learning how to play the game a bit.
Daenerys
VIEW CONTENT:
Aren't the unsullied supposed to be beyond lust, aside of castrated? Like special training or that thing they drink that makes them painless?
VIEW CONTENT:
yeah, this bit's totally made up. Likely to try to make Dany's story more interesting. :)
Arya:
She's more mad than the book... that's for sure.
Loved her laugh at the gate. fantastic.
The fight:
VIEW CONTENT:
How on earth he expected to keep his head after that? Not that it will matter with the poison, but still?
VIEW CONTENT:
Not the brightest knight in the roster. Also, I don't think anyone in Westeros has the illusion that all knights are honorable, except maybe Brienne
Jaime's chapter after the fight:
VIEW CONTENT:
Ehh... who is the girl that is promised to Ramsey? She has to be a lady's daughter or something, else the ruse wouldn't pass.
"Or something", yes. This is Book 5 territory, but if you really want to know here's the spoiler:
VIEW CONTENT:
Jeyne Pool, daughter of the Steward of Winterfell, and Sansa's childhood friend
VIEW CONTENT:
And what's that about JOFFREY sending the assassin? I was sure it was littlefinger or at the very least, Varys.
VIEW CONTENT:
Surprise! :) In the book, Joff hints at it before his wedding, talking about Valyrian steel with Tyrion. I was sad they left that out.
alhoon wrote:EPISODE 10:

Jon Snow
VIEW CONTENT:
Mance scene was good, but it didn't include the horn. :( Nor the woman and child
VIEW CONTENT:
I expect Dalla and her child will be introduced next season. No reason they couldn't have been among the other nameless women and children. The horn will likely be omitted.
Cersei & Mountain
VIEW CONTENT:
Let me guess: A combination of many things, right? ...What book is that in?
VIEW CONTENT:
Book 4, Chapter 8
Daenerys
VIEW CONTENT:
What is that with the slaves wanted to be re-sold? Is that in the books? Again, it stretches believability (although it HAS happened in very few cases in Roman republic with emanicipated slaves).
Old man, instead of being owned like a chair or goat, you can ask to simply live in his house and be fed in exchange of teaching his kids! And be free to choose! It's not slavery or squalor.
VIEW CONTENT:
She's deep into Book 5 now. Chapters 8 & 12 at least. I don't recall that exact case in the book, but it's just one more example of "you can't just kick the anthill and expect everyone to be happy.
VIEW CONTENT:
And when exactly the dragons escaped?!? How I missed that?
VIEW CONTENT:
Not so much escaped, they are just free-ranging.
VIEW CONTENT:
And why is she shown chaining the dragons? I thought after the incident with the sheep she would have reigned them in, when she was warned that they CANNOT be tamed...
VIEW CONTENT:
A sheep is just meat. Now it's a child, and hence, worth chaining her "babies" up for.
Bran
VIEW CONTENT:
What that with the fey, the fireballs and the skeletons? Seems... unGoTish.
VIEW CONTENT:
True, but it's not all that different from the books. His storyline has always been the most classic fantasy hero's journey-like. And wow! I loved those skeletons. Best I've ever seen on film.
Arya and ... Bryenne
?!?!?
yeah, not in the book, but I liked it. always wanted to see Arya meet her.


Overall, I quite loved this episode.
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alhoon
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by alhoon »

So... they're throwing in parts from book 4 and 5.
Oh well.

While I also liked the episode the Tyrion scene seemed... lacking.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY Tywin!

You noticed that Jon mentions Ned and his honor, Cersei-Tywin, Tyrion-Tywin and Arya-Hound in the same Father's day episode, didn't you?
All that was missing was Jaime admitting he believed Joffrey should die whether he was his son or not to make a perfect Father's day episode.
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Gonzoron of the FoS
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Re: Game of Thrones - the TV series

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:So... they're throwing in parts from book 4 and 5.
Oh well.
They have been for a while. Theon's been solidly in book 5 for two seasons now.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY Tywin!
Indeed! Very serendipitous timing.
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
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