Touch of Death Sand zombies

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Hamiclar
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Touch of Death Sand zombies

Post by Hamiclar »

Hello, well I am starting the adventure Touch of death on Monday. Regarding sand zombies and moster lore, should I allow a character with Knowledge undead to get chance to discover what the zombies are or since its the 1st time they are ever encountered according to touch of death?
I plan with starting with the Vistani but having the group being separated and ending in tunnels with creatures with three toes with rubbery hides and eventually discover a way into Senmet's tomb which is empty of him but hold its guardians still. As the group goes through the tomb, I was planning on having the group accidently free a great deal of sand zombies which swim off into the sand towards the village. I was going to have the groups investigators discover though ancient Akiri that the sand zombies were amongst many of the reasons he was placed here in shame by Anhktepot and not buried in the valley of with the pharaoh. Than moving on with the group discovering the Vistani outside entrance as through they has just arrived.

Looking at the entry on sand zombies, they sound as though they can be a little difficult to figure out since they can wield weapons and cast spells devine and arcane as a sorcerer. I am planning on creating two one of each type that were the original sand zombies Senmet made, the others I was debating as warriors and commons people templates.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

Post by Nox »

Hamiclar wrote:Hello, well I am starting the adventure Touch of death on Monday. Regarding sand zombies and moster lore, should I allow a character with Knowledge undead to get chance to discover what the zombies are or since its the 1st time they are ever encountered according to touch of death?
I plan with starting with the Vistani but having the group being separated and ending in tunnels with creatures with three toes with rubbery hides and eventually discover a way into Senmet's tomb which is empty of him but hold its guardians still. As the group goes through the tomb, I was planning on having the group accidently free a great deal of sand zombies which swim off into the sand towards the village. I was going to have the groups investigators discover though ancient Akiri that the sand zombies were amongst many of the reasons he was placed here in shame by Anhktepot and not buried in the valley of with the pharaoh. Than moving on with the group discovering the Vistani outside entrance as through they has just arrived.

Looking at the entry on sand zombies, they sound as though they can be a little difficult to figure out since they can wield weapons and cast spells devine and arcane as a sorcerer. I am planning on creating two one of each type that were the original sand zombies Senmet made, the others I was debating as warriors and commons people templates.
First of all: No, they should not be able to do that, since they dont know the creature. Desert zombies are exclusive creatures from Har'Akir (particularly from this adventure) and no outsider should be capable of knowing anything just by looking at them. I would do an exception if they can capture - or kill - one zombies and examine it (in that case Knowledge religion (Undead, gods etc), or maybe a more appropriate solution could be Int check (lower CD, something like 14 at most) should be fine - note: I dont know what version you are playing, i guess 3.5(?). You can also tell them "You dont know what in the cursed mists are those creature, they resemble zombies, but they have something different. - add brief description -. You think you could get some info if you menage to study those vile creatures."
If they do that check I would allow them having some information : If they fail i'll have them not knowing how the hell those zombies are made, or maybe give them totally wrong answer, up to you. If they succede by any means they will figure out what desert zombie are and more or less how they are made (i tend not to give too much information early on adventures. I will just make sure they will know everything by the end of the adventure, weather they succed some check, they find out by clues or they witness it.)

Ok, so if I got what you said: You'll have them divided from vistani and lost into Senmet tomb, then rejoin the vistani and start the adventure?
Honestly, i would not do it.
A great part of the plot is having them not knowing about Senmet, letting them think that is Ankthepot who raise zombies and kidnap people.
Part from that, AFAIK (I'm running the adventure myself, i just read it once - not even fully) the Tomb is closed untill it comes the day (you'll have to let the vistani read cards for your players, and some of the card will tell how many days they'll need to wait for the tomb to be opened). Obviously, as a DM, you can just remove that part and adjust the adventure as you like, but honestly i like the investigating part of this adventure. They will have to find out who actually is that mummy who is attacking them.
Said that, i would not do that this way. They will have information on Ankhtepot from Isu and she should mention Senmet at some point. They will figure it out for sure.
The tunnel part, i dont know, i feel it like it's forced. They should be in the desert, it's hard to think of tunnels in the sand.
Probably I'm one of those dm which focuses on the little things and he wants everything consistent and perfect as much as he can.
I dont know you, but I feel like ravenloft needs consistence.

The rest is up to you.
Remember it's your campaign, but since you asked i gave you my 2 cents. If you like it that way, and you think your player would enjoy it aswell, you should play it as you want.
I suppose i'm focused on consistence and coeherence because some of my player want that kind of depth in the NPC's and the stories.
If your player dont bother those kind of things, go easy on it and play it as you like.

For the Desert zombies, yeah, you should develop them as sorcers (one or two at most. In my opinion, magic should not be a common thing in har'Akir) and cleric (more, since Senmet kidnaps priests. Keep in mind that Har'Akir is a theocracy, a system of government in which priests rule in the name of a god, so religion is very relevant and is central, thus we will have many priests. - Note: Senmet afaik kidnaps priest who does not want to prey him as a god, thus Senmet's priest should be left in the templse with Isu. If i'm wrong feel free to correct me, as I said I just read the adventure once). rest of the zombies should be few warriors (guards of the city), and many commoners (town folks).
I keep those kind of things in mind when I build my adventures.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

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First of all: No, they should not be able to do that, since they dont know the creature. Desert zombies are exclusive creatures from Har'Akir (particularly from this adventure) and no outsider should be capable of knowing anything just by looking at them.
I'm going to disagree and say that it depends on the game you're running. There's a default assumption in 3.5 that knowledge checks will apply to anything, possibly with a DC modifier for rarity. If you're varying from that, you probably should make that apparent. The important thing is to make how you're running the game clear and explicit to the players that you expect a more investigative game to figure things out. (Of course, you should also afford them chances to investigate things, which the Raveoft modules aren't always the best about.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

Post by Igor the Henchman »

My personal solution would be to tell them it's an undead abomination strongly related to a common zombie, but that it might possess slightly different abilities. They appear better preserved and might be swifter than the slow, clumsy undead they had faced in the swamp. The character would also note a very faint aroma of exotic desert spices used in their creation, and notice they must have spent a long time buried in the sand. Beyond that, I'd leave them guessing.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

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Thanks on the Response Nox. I actually had the tomb they started in as the minor official bone creature from book of vile darkness I am using as wizard the groups going to face, to transition over to TOD. I had the group meet the Vistani after NOFTWD and after helping them like the start they told the vistani they wanted to go where adventure awaited! The group than in the mist began to distance themselves from the wagon losing it to fading of bells. The group then had three of them fall into a water pit. As the others moved into the area they ran into troll which jumped on them quick. My party up this point had gotten the surprise of the encounters so far with the tables turned it was great. The regeneration rule threw them off! The group actually ran away and got into the lower level of the tomb with its Akiri writing, with its curse regarding bulls and snakes.

Lesser and Igor I play 3.5 and leaning towards not letting them know of these type of zombies until they talk to townspeople of Muhar. My wizard has monster lore undead but I was placing most of his knowledge of what would be found in Darkon his home.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

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The Lesser Evil wrote: I'm going to disagree and say that it depends on the game you're running. There's a default assumption in 3.5 that knowledge checks will apply to anything, possibly with a DC modifier for rarity.
Yes, you right about the rule, I only considered the way I manage it in my campaign.
Technically sand zombies are created by Senmet himself (the monster did not exist before). There shouldn't be a way they know what are those creatures. It is like if you go back in 1980 and use your iphone in front of someone. No one will know what it is. Although if they can examine it they will probably figure it out since it will be somehow similar to old mobile phones. Sand zombies are similar to zombies, but very different in many aspect.
I think they will figure out quickly what they are (Undeads) but i dont think they could know about their abilities and such without close examination or direct confrontation in fight.
But this thought is just about my overly realistical vision of things, and it could not fit everyone's campaign.
The Lesser Evil wrote:If you're varying from that, you probably should make that apparent. The important thing is to make how you're running the game clear and explicit to the players that you expect a more investigative game to figure things out. (Of course, you should also afford them chances to investigate things, which the Raveoft modules aren't always the best about.
Totally agree with you. As I said, if you follow my idea, you should give them hints or say something that make clear to players that if they examine the corpse of one of those creatures they could be able to figure things out.
If you want to strictly follow classic rules you can just roll "Knowledge (Religion)" to determine information about those creature.
If no one has knowledge religion you go for the normal int check (that is their untrained knowledge religion).

Let me explain my vision: Since I read the Van Richten guides my vision about monster (expecially those new monsters and/or variants on ravenloft) changed a lot (VR investigates creature - by fighting them, examining corpse or captured monsters, etc). I usually adopt the method mentioned above. I like the investigative way when my player encounter a new creature or a strange variant of a classic creature. Of course my player could also say "i dont give a damn about those monster's lore!" and kill them right away.
Said that, in any other setting I would follow the classic knowledge method 100%.

I just wanted to clarify my position, since my english is far from perfect and I could've been misunderstood. No argue intended :mrgreen: .
Anyone can follow my philosophy, or not :lol: .
Hamiclar wrote:Thanks on the Response Nox. I actually had the tomb they started in as the minor official bone creature from book of vile darkness I am using as wizard the groups going to face, to transition over to TOD. I had the group meet the Vistani after NOFTWD and after helping them like the start they told the vistani they wanted to go where adventure awaited! The group than in the mist began to distance themselves from the wagon losing it to fading of bells. The group then had three of them fall into a water pit. As the others moved into the area they ran into troll which jumped on them quick. My party up this point had gotten the surprise of the encounters so far with the tables turned it was great. The regeneration rule threw them off! The group actually ran away and got into the lower level of the tomb with its Akiri writing, with its curse regarding bulls and snakes.

Lesser and Igor I play 3.5 and leaning towards not letting them know of these type of zombies until they talk to townspeople of Muhar. My wizard has monster lore undead but I was placing most of his knowledge of what would be found in Darkon his home.
Now i understand what you meant, it seems fair to me, good job!
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

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The Lesser Evil wrote:
First of all: No, they should not be able to do that, since they dont know the creature. Desert zombies are exclusive creatures from Har'Akir (particularly from this adventure) and no outsider should be capable of knowing anything just by looking at them.
I'm going to disagree and say that it depends on the game you're running. There's a default assumption in 3.5 that knowledge checks will apply to anything, possibly with a DC modifier for rarity. If you're varying from that, you probably should make that apparent. The important thing is to make how you're running the game clear and explicit to the players that you expect a more investigative game to figure things out. (Of course, you should also afford them chances to investigate things, which the Raveoft modules aren't always the best about.
Yes, this is problem I face a lot. The knowledge skills work fine for your standard off the shelf adventurer, who's assumed to have been around a bit before even starting 1st level. But when you have characters with detailed backgrounds, especially ones that run right up to the start of the campaign, it can be hard to justify sometimes. Yes, you might hit a DC25 and learn all about, say werecrocodiles, but how many werecrocodiles have you even heard of, let alone run into, in your past? It can be a tricky balance to reward a player's investment in skills, but also keep a coherent story.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

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The background of pcs can be helpful, mine are detailed up to the point of the start which is pretty much how my first three. The knowledge being specific one having Ravenloft and being hunted for that knowledge. The others are introduced with other story arcs I wanted to work into the campaign unrelated to the prophecy to get that knowledge in other areas can be expanded fey and nature which my pc did not think of until I hinted it before there encounters with trolls. I have used the The definitive
3rd edition Ravenloft Monstrous List in my campaign which has been great revealing what they are fighting with tidbits I release as I describe the creature they face.
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Re: Touch of Death Sand zombies

Post by Joël of the FoS »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Yes, this is problem I face a lot. The knowledge skills work fine for your standard off the shelf adventurer, who's assumed to have been around a bit before even starting 1st level. But when you have characters with detailed backgrounds, especially ones that run right up to the start of the campaign, it can be hard to justify sometimes. Yes, you might hit a DC25 and learn all about, say werecrocodiles, but how many werecrocodiles have you even heard of, let alone run into, in your past? It can be a tricky balance to reward a player's investment in skills, but also keep a coherent story.
IMC, I use things like "you remember reading a report about ...", "you remember speaking to this adventuror / mentor / other NPC ... about ...", "you remember this bard tale about ...".

Or "you think it could be somekind of ... but you are not sure."

And if the info would really be too much of a spoiler, then I say "you do not know anything about that creature".

Joël
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