Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

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Nalfien
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Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by Nalfien »

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I want to allow one of my players to be a Wereraven as they have an arch nemesis that is a Werewolf. I'm running the 5e Curse of Strahd. There are absolutely no repercussions to being a Wereraven other than not having your clothes shift with you. Easily made up by the ability to poop bomb.

There is nothing stopping the player from infecting the rest of the party (or all of Barovia) to help them in their fight.

I'm thinking to balance this you can only be born a Wereraven. The group in Curse of Strahd can bestow one raven cloak that can cause the curse while attuned.

What other measures can I take to make it a curse?
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Re: Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by Zilfer »

Have to eat X amount of worms (or carrion) each day? That makes it more curse like. People not born a were raven may have a "trigger" that forces them to transform when they might not want to. (Ex. In public places). Just think along those lines. :)
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Re: Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

There are absolutely no repercussions to being a Wereraven
Well, that's obviously your problem in a nutshell.
I'm thinking to balance this you can only be born a Wereraven. The group in Curse of Strahd can bestow one raven cloak that can cause the curse while attuned.
Okay, what you are describing here is a limitation, not a balance. I'm not trying to be pedantic; these are different things and will have a major bearing on your end goal.
What other measures can I take to make it a curse?
Assuming "it's a curse" is your end goal, no amount of limitation will do the job. If being a wereraven is "awesome," then the one player who gets to be born with this will just see it as being born awesome. You may limit him from spreading "awesome" to whoever he wishes, but it's still a boon, not a burden. Sure you have hero lycanthropes like Ivan Dragonov (infected) and Carnagan Wolfe (born), but in both cases their powers are so awesome that they needed additional circumstances to make they tragic. Cursed lycanthropes, sure, but lycanthropy is not the actual curse in either case.

Saying it's a "curse" means that, at some level, this player occasionally wishes his character was not a wereraven, and/or that most other players don't envy his character, would reject his offer if they knew all the conditions, and would get upset if he imposed it on them. Some of this can be imposed by limitations--the part about their clothes not changing with them, for example--but limitations usually just reduce the utility of the powers. You just reduce his "awesome" down to "sweet," or even down to "nifty," but a smaller boon is still a boon, and all the others will still want him to share it.

A curse is a burden. No one wants a burden.

VRGTW suggests several possibilities. As Zilfer pointed out, there's the daily requirement in x pounds of raw meat, which his raven side would probably lean toward grubs and worms. Then there's outcast rating--the social repurcussions if anyone found out he was an unnatural creature (or just noticed him scarfing down a maggot when he thought no one was looking).

And there need to be consequences to stuff like the clothes. So he can't take them with him, he has to undress before changing. That's a mere logistical limitation--a little planning and he still gets to do lots of cool stuff. But what if an emergency situation convinces him to breaks this rule, and he changes while wearing them? Do they get destroyed, or just left behind? Does he take damage? I would recommend that either he or the clothes take damage, at minimum. IIRC VRGtW recommends both.

But even the threat of destroying his favorite magic boots is only a logistical limitation if he has total control over when he changes. That's why VRGtW recommends that he lose control of his powers if he doesn't eat his daily requirement in raw meat. NOW this is a burden, with some teeth. He MUST consume a couple handfuls of bugs per day, OR he runs the risk of changing form spontaneously (i.e. while wearing clothes), with all the corresponding consequences of damage to him, his clothes and his social status. He may invest in a hat of disguise so he can walk around naked and always appear clothed, but this is still something the other members of the party are going to think twice about. Every time they watch him rustle up his grubs, they will see how much of his life revolves around keeping control of the inner beast.

And about that beast: it sounds like you are going with the idea that the raven side is not evil. That's fine, that's in keeping with plenty of other sources in Ravenloft. BUT, if he skimps on raw meat, or otherwise changes form unwillingly, there's one other side effect I would impose. The monster that takes over may not be EVIL, but it's not HIM, either. It might fly off to go investigate something shiny, or turn over a rotten log to hunt for food. Even if you rule that it fights alongside his allies in combat, he won't remember it afterwards. This should only be true of when he changes form unwillingly, but it should be a real threat that looms over him.

Lycanthropy is about someone else living in your skin, and that someone else doesn't have to be a murderous beast hell-bent on killing those you love in order to cause you grief. Let the others in the party think about that while they are babysitting this PC's raven half until he comes back to himself.
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Re: Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by Nalfien »

I've decided that it will be limited to an item (cloak) so that total nudeness isn't a problem. As an alternative, I could also limit it by making only natural born Wereravens able to pass the curse.

To make it more of a curse than a gift, crows will hate them and form murders to drive them out and attack them. That might lead to some unexpected encounters where they were spying as a raven and end up discovered.

Each time they change they will find it harder and harder to turn back into a human. This helps there be some consequences to the power. Changing against their will, especially while sleeping will become a factor. Not being able to remove the cloak is also a feature, although not really all that negative, it will count against how many magic items they can attune to, balancing the benefits a little.
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Re: Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by Mistmaster »

Why Licantropy should be seen as a curse, in the first place? It can have some controindication, but should be seen as a gift with responsability attached, instead than a curse.
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Re: Wereravens... Wereravens Everywhere

Post by Nox »

Mistmaster wrote:Why Licantropy should be seen as a curse, in the first place? It can have some controindication, but should be seen as a gift with responsability attached, instead than a curse.
Let me start by saying that every dm can rule his own campaign as he wants, I am just gonna tell you the Canon info contained in Van richten Guide to Werebeast and adding little of my own.

If you watch it from the perspective of a player in an high fantasy realm, you are totally right. "woah, thats the most coolest thing ever! I turn into a man-wolf, I have superstrenght, natural attack, regeneration, superseded, night vision, damage reduction etc".

"sadly" In ravenloft lycantrophic transformation are completely horrific events, and most (if not all) of the times the "victms" of such transformation do not control their body nor their action when they change. Most of lycantrophes kill their own family, their loved ones, their friends, and usually those are their very first victims.

Lycantrophes vary between natural and infected. Natural are more aware of their condition and MAY be able to control themself. Usually they live in community far away from commoners, and breeds are kept there until they gain control over their animal form.

Infected lycantrophes instead turn after being bitten or cursed(if I am recalling correctly) and they have no control over their actions...
Transformation of both of those (infected or natural) is horrific to witness(it actually require an horror save) and extremely painful for the victim. Bones broke while they shape change. Flesh get tear apart, teeth grows very fast as their face take the shape of the were-creature. Their organ shifts to match their new form and all this is done by undergoing immense pain by the victim. Think about you have to undergo those kind of experience every time there is full moon? Or every time you experience strong feeling (yes, even intense love). Think about you wake up and find your hands covered in blood and Metallic taste in your mouth, and then you figure out that your family (or your love) has been killed.
This is Why I would not consider this much of a gift. On ravenloft at least.

Said that, some of those characters actually see their curse as a gift (particularly some clans of natural were creatures who live by them self in forests). Some of those creature are even good aligned and help others, but is such a rare event that is not something you should count on if you met one of them. Is explicitly stated that Even the good aligned were creatures (werebears for example) on ravenloft are usually evil. Of course, exception happens.

One can start to live with his nature, and learn to Control the beast within, but is not a common event.

Edit: based on van richten Guide to Werebeast. Of course you can let your player play wereraven and follow the normal wereraven as it is on he classic D&d book, but I think that is takes away much of the ravenloft mood from were creatures. You play 5e but you can use the rules and concepts presented in that book (Van richten Guide) as well, to give a real ravenloft flavor to your campaign. You just need to adapt it to 5e (consider that most of the things in that book are descriptions and lore, not actual rules.the rules you will find in that book should be easily adapted to D&d next without too much effort I suppose.

Edit 2: this is just what can I remember from the book so far, I could be wrong on something
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