Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

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thekristhomas
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Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

Ok so, obviously Castle Ravenloft is central, in a thematic way, to the setting, and that's as it should be.

But it is also central geographically, and I have more of an issue with this, which has become more clear to me as I have read CoS and been working out ideas in the War in the Core thread.

To me (YMMV), it seems that it doesn't suit the feeling of Castle Ravenloft, as an analogue of Castle Dracula, to be so close to as major a trade artery as the Old Svalich Road must be. As the main link between West and East, nearly all trade between Nova Vaasa/Hazlan and nearly every body else save Darkon, must travel along it. The Village of Barovia, with associated choking fog, must be passed through. In contrast, the Borgo Pass, upon which Castle Dracula is located, is an isolated road, not often travelled.

Ravenloft is also the seat of power, as hands off as Strahd may be, you have to assume that most citizens will know of it's existence and location, whereas Castle Dracula, even a few towns away, was practically unknown.

Yes, Strahd is not Dracula and Ravenloft not Dracula's Castle, but the fact remains that one was based on the other, or at least was inspired by the various stereotypes that had built up around the other.

To some extent, this becomes clear when you try to play one of the versions of I6 as a part of the wider setting. Playing I6 as a stand alone, weekend in hell style adventure allows, to some extent, the players to play "naive" and act as if they don't know the castle is chocked full of monsters. However, as part of the setting, players will have heard tales of Strahd in every town that they've passed through on the way, and are going to load up on holy water and stakes.

My proposed "solution" is an extension of the Tsolenka Pass Road from Cos. As detailed in that adventure the southern/eastern sections of that road lay outside the bounds of the map, and in my version of Barovia based on the adventure (on thekristhomas map collection thread) I've extended it south to link to the southern towns of the former Gundarak. If it was also extended eastwards, through the pass south of the Svalich Road to Nova Vaasa, it would by pass the Village of Barovia entirely.

Now, it is a much more tortuous route than the relatively straight Svalich Pass, but it would quickly become the main route from West to East as it avoids the choking fog. It would also radically alter both the economic and (more importantly for us) the adventuring structure of the domain. Teufeldorf and Zeidenberg would become the "welcome mat" of Barovia, travellers and merchants from both sides of the core would cross here, centering wealth in the south, making the southern towns more cosmopolitan, and therefore "safer" (lower level),and by passing Barovia "proper", making the northern towns more backwater in nature (higher level). Krezk and Vallaki would still be connected to Borca via the old Svalich Road, and the southern towns via the Tsolenka Pass, and maybe some merchants would choose to go through Krezk to Borca, but Vallaki would be something of a dead end, as it's difficult to see a merchant risking the choking fog when the prize is just the pittance to be made supplying the Village of Barovia.

Passed Vallaki, I'd imagine, the Old Svalich road would degenerate into a trail through disuse, making the trip to the village of Barovia that little bit more difficult (higher level again). If Vallaki, now a little isolated, were to return to it's role as a holiday retreat, now more possible as the increase in trade generates more wealth for the nation, then the occasional hiker might seek out "the lost village in the fog" never to return, but in general, there would be no reason (other than adventure) to travel to the Village of Barovia or Castle Ravenloft, returning it to it's rightful place as the scary castle up in the hills where few go and fewer return.

I'll stick a map up soon to illustrate
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by Joël of the FoS »

A map would be indeed useful to follow you, but I like your idea.
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

I realised that the Tsolenka Bridge, as written, is almost as great a barrier as the choking fog, so the western section of the Tsolenka Road would probably also degrade over time into a trail
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

Another thing that might be usefully marked on the map could be cataracts. Why can't you walk from the ruins of Berez to the Tsolenka Bridge? The bridge is over a gorge cut by a waterfall some distance above it, you could walk/wade to the waterfall and abseil/cliff dive down, but then when you got to the bridge you'd be at the bottom and the bridge would tower above you.

I think, (YMMV) that little tweaks like that can heighten the domains playability in terms of structuring the "sandbox" as to make the higher risk locations, the Old Bone Grinder for example, the little bit more inaccessible. If every merchant who traveled through Barovia passed within a few hundred yards of the mill, then that would, it seems to me, alter the tactics of the terrifyingly powerful hags who dwell there.

IMHO, Castle Ravenloft should be (often literally) the last place anyone sees
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

Teufeldorf would become the great crossroads joining east to west, north and south, growing into a major city (in Core terms) from the trade, the swiftness of the growth could lead to something of a sprawl, with many a back alley with lurking danger.

Zeidenburg then might develop into the cultural centre of the nation, as trade from the cultured west must flow through it on it's way south and east, the structure of the town as it grew might show the influence of it's Borcan neighbours.

If we assume a more distant Strahd, if his presence is felt at all in these parts it should (IMHO) be by several degrees of separation, then these towns might have developed passed the point where a burgomeister could cope alone with their civic duties. Without Strahd's guiding hand, they might develop quite different ad hoc governmental structures to suit the needs of each city.

If we imagine Teufeldorf as the trading town, fur and lumber from the south, horses and opium from the east, then it seems likely that it might develop quite a seedy neighborhood, particularly around the horse markets and tanneries. This might, in turn, encourage those who made their money through trade in the town, to abandon it into the hands of proxies while they spent their earnings on country estates or in the better neighbourhoods of Zeidenburg. It might be the trading houses, and craft guilds that supplement the burgomeister in the form of a city council.

With the population of Zeidenburg swollen with a newly formed middle class fleeing the scent of Teufeldorf, they find themselves without the authority to govern but the self determination not to be bossed around by some parochial mayor. The self made populous decide to make their own leaders, inspired by the Borcan tradition of advocacy they create a Council of Advocates, professional politicians paid to advocate on behalf of those with coin enough, with most political decisions being treated as legal cases tried before a tribunal of fellow advocates agreed upon by both parties. The Barovians will never match their Borcan cousins for intrigue, but the more harmless machinations of Zeidenburg might provide adventure hooks that would take paries further into the hinterland
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

OK I'm going to take this a stage further, and suggest that Barovia would function better, as a setting, as an adaptation of Dracula, and as an expansion of the original adventure, if Strahd was trapped, not just in Barovia but also within the choking ring of fog.

I've been reading various articles about people's experience playing the original adventure (or some iteration thereof, I myself play House of Strahd) and an idea that has come up several times is how desperate Strahd is to escape. Now of course, this is not news, but for most of the players, that escape wasn't from the demi-plane, or the confines of his nation, as they were playing the module without the benefit of the campaign setting, but from the much smaller cell of the village of Barovia.

This held immediate appeal to me, as it felt truer to the stereotype of the vampire lord subsisting on meagre fare delighted to feast on adventurers. Also while reading CoS I became aware that I wasn't comfortable with that adventure's use of Strahd as a potential nemesis outside of Castle Ravenloft itself, but realized that there was absolutely no canonical reason for encounters with Strahd to be limited to any locale within the domain.

And if circumstances warranted it, why wouldn't Strahd attend to matters himself? Unlike Azalin and many other domain lords, Strahd, canonically rules with a hand so light as to barely exist, allowing him plenty of free time to chase down pesky PCs or irksome NPCs. Given how masterful Strahd is portrayed (and how we need him to be, as both "the" vampire and as the challenge to our PCs) is it then believable that any ploy or plot against him would stand? If not then that would make Barovia a little lacking in depth.

If we limit Strahd to within the choking fog, we marry the original into the setting more closely (IMHO), but it also explains his "light hand" and gives us a good reason for Strahd to maintain networks of spies (the Vistani) and loyalists (the Wachters), when he could essentially be his own secret police force.

It also feels truer to the curse, Strahd shouldn't get to rule, and if he does then aspects of kingship should be denied him.

Again this feeds into Barovia as a sandbox, if Strahd is the centre of a domain spanning network, then investigating any lead associated with that network will ultimately lead to Strahd naturally without any railroad.
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by ewancummins »

thekristhomas wrote:OK I'm going to take this a stage further, and suggest that Barovia would function better, as a setting, as an adaptation of Dracula, and as an expansion of the original adventure, if Strahd was trapped, not just in Barovia but also within the choking ring of fog.

I've been reading various articles about people's experience playing the original adventure (or some iteration thereof, I myself play House of Strahd) and an idea that has come up several times is how desperate Strahd is to escape. Now of course, this is not news, but for most of the players, that escape wasn't from the demi-plane, or the confines of his nation, as they were playing the module without the benefit of the campaign setting, but from the much smaller cell of the village of Barovia.

This held immediate appeal to me, as it felt truer to the stereotype of the vampire lord subsisting on meagre fare delighted to feast on adventurers. Also while reading CoS I became aware that I wasn't comfortable with that adventure's use of Strahd as a potential nemesis outside of Castle Ravenloft itself, but realized that there was absolutely no canonical reason for encounters with Strahd to be limited to any locale within the domain.

And if circumstances warranted it, why wouldn't Strahd attend to matters himself? Unlike Azalin and many other domain lords, Strahd, canonically rules with a hand so light as to barely exist, allowing him plenty of free time to chase down pesky PCs or irksome NPCs. Given how masterful Strahd is portrayed (and how we need him to be, as both "the" vampire and as the challenge to our PCs) is it then believable that any ploy or plot against him would stand? If not then that would make Barovia a little lacking in depth.

If we limit Strahd to within the choking fog, we marry the original into the setting more closely (IMHO), but it also explains his "light hand" and gives us a good reason for Strahd to maintain networks of spies (the Vistani) and loyalists (the Wachters), when he could essentially be his own secret police force.

It also feels truer to the curse, Strahd shouldn't get to rule, and if he does then aspects of kingship should be denied him.

Again this feeds into Barovia as a sandbox, if Strahd is the centre of a domain spanning network, then investigating any lead associated with that network will ultimately lead to Strahd naturally without any railroad.

I think I like this idea.

He's presumably not going to choke if he tries to cross the fog, but it might still pen him in by mystical means, like a summoning circle.
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

ewancummins wrote:
thekristhomas wrote:OK I'm going to take this a stage further, and suggest that Barovia would function better, as a setting, as an adaptation of Dracula, and as an expansion of the original adventure, if Strahd was trapped, not just in Barovia but also within the choking ring of fog.

I've been reading various articles about people's experience playing the original adventure (or some iteration thereof, I myself play House of Strahd) and an idea that has come up several times is how desperate Strahd is to escape. Now of course, this is not news, but for most of the players, that escape wasn't from the demi-plane, or the confines of his nation, as they were playing the module without the benefit of the campaign setting, but from the much smaller cell of the village of Barovia.

This held immediate appeal to me, as it felt truer to the stereotype of the vampire lord subsisting on meagre fare delighted to feast on adventurers. Also while reading CoS I became aware that I wasn't comfortable with that adventure's use of Strahd as a potential nemesis outside of Castle Ravenloft itself, but realized that there was absolutely no canonical reason for encounters with Strahd to be limited to any locale within the domain.

And if circumstances warranted it, why wouldn't Strahd attend to matters himself? Unlike Azalin and many other domain lords, Strahd, canonically rules with a hand so light as to barely exist, allowing him plenty of free time to chase down pesky PCs or irksome NPCs. Given how masterful Strahd is portrayed (and how we need him to be, as both "the" vampire and as the challenge to our PCs) is it then believable that any ploy or plot against him would stand? If not then that would make Barovia a little lacking in depth.

If we limit Strahd to within the choking fog, we marry the original into the setting more closely (IMHO), but it also explains his "light hand" and gives us a good reason for Strahd to maintain networks of spies (the Vistani) and loyalists (the Wachters), when he could essentially be his own secret police force.

It also feels truer to the curse, Strahd shouldn't get to rule, and if he does then aspects of kingship should be denied him.

Again this feeds into Barovia as a sandbox, if Strahd is the centre of a domain spanning network, then investigating any lead associated with that network will ultimately lead to Strahd naturally without any railroad.

I think I like this idea.

He's presumably not going to choke if he tries to cross the fog, but it might still pen him in by mystical means, like a summoning circle.
Yeah, exactly, or like how he can't cross the border of the nation of Barovia, canonically
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Re: Mad Idea: Castle Ravenloft is too central!

Post by thekristhomas »

Also it makes the whole, "summoned to the castle", thing make more sense, if Strahd can just turn up, exsanguinate, and depart, surely he'd do that, and burgomeisters wouldn't dread the missive that summoned them to the seat of government
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