Should I allow Identify Spell?

[ewancummins]

There you go!

Ravenloft has plenty of cultural variety among humans, anyway.

[DustBunny]

I must disagree with continual light though. Sure it is usefull, but it also has its downsides.

Remember the light 'range' is 120', but the light doesn't stop there. Outside that range the PC's can't see anything. Like sitting next to a campfire you can see things in the range of illumination, but outside that range you see can nothing. However every monster for 10 miles can see the light which essentially means 'Free Food. All you can eat. Come and get it'. Any light source has these problems, but a low level torch has far less 'Free Food' range than a glow of almost daylight. Flicking light on and off would easily be a reason to 'loose a round' due to blindness as eyes adjust to the darkness. And things outside the circle can easily target the illuminated PCs, and the PC's can't shoot back because they can't see out.

As for the 'fear factor' I would say the light makes it worse. You hear _something_ outside the circle of light, but who is going to volunteer to go and look. And then someone throws a blob of mud (called shot) at their magic light bulb, and then the screaming happens as they didn't pack any mudane light sources..

If you have access to the old 1e Dungeoneers survival guide and the Wilderness Survival guide they have some interesting write-ups on things like this. One _very_ pertinent one is about crypts and tombs - They are usually extremely oxygen poor, so PC's are going to be gasping for breath after a few minutes, less if they use fire. And that's not even mentioning pockets of 'rotten air' which could duplicate a stinking cloud spell. Of course the inhabitants don't have to worry about breathing bad air...

[Zilfer]

I must disagree with continual light though. Sure it is usefull, but it also has its downsides.

Remember the light 'range' is 120', but the light doesn't stop there. Outside that range the PC's can't see anything. Like sitting next to a campfire you can see things in the range of illumination, but outside that range you see can nothing. However every monster for 10 miles can see the light which essentially means 'Free Food. All you can eat. Come and get it'. Any light source has these problems, but a low level torch has far less 'Free Food' range than a glow of almost daylight. Flicking light on and off would easily be a reason to 'loose a round' due to blindness as eyes adjust to the darkness. And things outside the circle can easily target the illuminated PCs, and the PC's can't shoot back because they can't see out.

As for the 'fear factor' I would say the light makes it worse. You hear _something_ outside the circle of light, but who is going to volunteer to go and look. And then someone throws a blob of mud (called shot) at their magic light bulb, and then the screaming happens as they didn't pack any mudane light sources..

If you have access to the old 1e Dungeoneers survival guide and the Wilderness Survival guide they have some interesting write-ups on things like this. One _very_ pertinent one is about crypts and tombs - They are usually extremely oxygen poor, so PC's are going to be gasping for breath after a few minutes, less if they use fire. And that's not even mentioning pockets of 'rotten air' which could duplicate a stinking cloud spell. Of course the inhabitants don't have to worry about breathing bad air...

This reminds me of a story that happened to my group. They were trying to infiltrate a building through a secret enterance beneath a waterfall. They knew enemies were possibly about, and they were on a ship with a first mate Drow who was geas'd to help surface dwellers so while he spoke a bit negative to all surface dwellers, and was sarcastic he never openly did anything to hurt surface dwellers. Well one of the PC's managed to insult him on the night of their attempt to get in. So he faerie fire'd the person in question and waved. This is at night and the player was confused and thought the guy was just being a dick to try and do anything he could within his limits to him.

Well they got to the waterfall and then arrows started raining down..... and the biggest beacon among them was the faerie fired man.... So yes I agree that Light isn't always the smartest thing to use, even if it is convenient.

[The Lesser Evil]

I must disagree with continual light though. Sure it is usefull, but it also has its downsides.



If you have access to the old 1e Dungeoneers survival guide and the Wilderness Survival guide they have some interesting write-ups on things like this. One _very_ pertinent one is about crypts and tombs - They are usually extremely oxygen poor, so PC's are going to be gasping for breath after a few minutes, less if they use fire. And that's not even mentioning pockets of 'rotten air' which could duplicate a stinking cloud spell. Of course the inhabitants don't have to worry about breathing bad air...

This won't work with continual light/continual flame, as it does not burn or produce heat. It only creates light.

[DustBunny]

This won't work with continual light/continual flame, as it does not burn or produce heat. It only creates light.

My bad, I didn't phrase that properly. Apologies

A continual light/flame wont burn off oxygen as you say, but I meant that the DSG and WSG describe an assortment of 'environmental hazards' which can make a simple crypt exploration a nightmare - the type of light source used being one of them.

By the time the PCs meet the villain, it may be a welcome relief from the journey to actually get there.

I'll disappear back under the sofa now.

[Joël of the FoS]

I see where you're going with these continual light possible bad situations, but still I think it should not be allowed.

If PCs have it, it will become an automatism, spoiling mysteries the DM tried to create, especially in close range. Also, 120' is quite a distance inside a building, even a large one. All the exploration mode becomes a lesser source of fear and anxiety. This isn't what RL is about, creating moods?

And to be fair, I think these strategies can be used a short number of times, before it becomes somewhat strange that all monsters / encounters use the same tactics against this light spell.

Joël

[ewancummins]

I see where you're going with these continual light possible bad situations, but still I think it should not be allowed.

If PCs have it, it will become an automatism, spoiling mysteries the DM tried to create, especially in close range. Also, 120' is quite a distance inside a building, even a large one. All the exploration mode becomes a lesser source of fear and anxiety. This isn't what RL is about, creating moods?

And to be fair, I think these strategies can be used a short number of times, before it becomes somewhat strange that all monsters / encounters use the same tactics against this light spell.

Joël

Yeah.

I think candles, torches, and lanterns make for a much more Gothic mood.
I would reserve a permanent glow got an actual magic item.

[DustBunny]

And to be fair, I think these strategies can be used a short number of times, before it becomes somewhat strange that all monsters / encounters use the same tactics against this light spell.

A fair point. *thinks*

An alternative method may be fudged using the description of the spell. It states in some versions that the spell slowly consumes the item it is cast on, so have the 'continual' light burn up the item. Requiring a gem, the spell burns it up at 10gp value an hour - and it doesn't have an off switch. The players still have access to the spell but extensive use will rapidly empty their bank accounts.

This is also a solution to many of the 'abused' spells - stoneskin, fireball, etc. By enforcing their material components you can clamp down on abuse. Where are the PC's going to get diamond dust and granite? Sulphur? Crystal rods? And a RL campaign adds another concern - shopping for 'spell components' is likely to attract Witch hunters in some regions, Darklord enforcers in others (I doubt Hazlan and Darkon approve of 'unregistered wizards'), or the Men in white coats for the cultured domains. That's assuming a 'exotic items' shop is even available and not just like todays 'magic shops' of card tricks and top hats.

Between the cost of the components, hush money to avoid problems, and boot leather when running away your average PC wizard is going to be very poor if they don't ration spells.

[Nox]

And to be fair, I think these strategies can be used a short number of times, before it becomes somewhat strange that all monsters / encounters use the same tactics against this light spell.

A fair point. *thinks*

An alternative method may be fudged using the description of the spell. It states in some versions that the spell slowly consumes the item it is cast on, so have the 'continual' light burn up the item. Requiring a gem, the spell burns it up at 10gp value an hour - and it doesn't have an off switch. The players still have access to the spell but extensive use will rapidly empty their bank accounts.

This is also a solution to many of the 'abused' spells - stoneskin, fireball, etc. By enforcing their material components you can clamp down on abuse. Where are the PC's going to get diamond dust and granite? Sulphur? Crystal rods? And a RL campaign adds another concern - shopping for 'spell components' is likely to attract Witch hunters in some regions, Darklord enforcers in others (I doubt Hazlan and Darkon approve of 'unregistered wizards'), or the Men in white coats for the cultured domains. That's assuming a 'exotic items' shop is even available and not just like todays 'magic shops' of card tricks and top hats.

Between the cost of the components, hush money to avoid problems, and boot leather when running away your average PC wizard is going to be very poor if they don't ration spells.

I always had a big problem with components in my campaign. I'm not sure how should i menage them. It's a lot of work... some advice?

[brilliantlight]

I admit I tend to stick to straight RL rules. I see RL as gothic novel meets D&D. I like spell casting as it makes you have to think more. You have to think of ways to deal with it and when and where to use it. Part of it may be I tend to play up the mystery part of it and divination spells are iffy in RL anyways. The way I run it the players spend most of their time trying to figure out what is really going on. It also helps that my players tend to like to figure out ways to avoid combat. With all the undead creeping around you can easily make it difficult for them to rest to regain spells. All in all I haven't found any problems with my character's in using magic. It could well be the players I have as much as the rules.

[brilliantlight]

I must disagree with continual light though. Sure it is usefull, but it also has its downsides.

Remember the light 'range' is 120', but the light doesn't stop there. Outside that range the PC's can't see anything. Like sitting next to a campfire you can see things in the range of illumination, but outside that range you see can nothing. However every monster for 10 miles can see the light which essentially means 'Free Food. All you can eat. Come and get it'. Any light source has these problems, but a low level torch has far less 'Free Food' range than a glow of almost daylight. Flicking light on and off would easily be a reason to 'loose a round' due to blindness as eyes adjust to the darkness. And things outside the circle can easily target the illuminated PCs, and the PC's can't shoot back because they can't see out.

As for the 'fear factor' I would say the light makes it worse. You hear _something_ outside the circle of light, but who is going to volunteer to go and look. And then someone throws a blob of mud (called shot) at their magic light bulb, and then the screaming happens as they didn't pack any mudane light sources..

If you have access to the old 1e Dungeoneers survival guide and the Wilderness Survival guide they have some interesting write-ups on things like this. One _very_ pertinent one is about crypts and tombs - They are usually extremely oxygen poor, so PC's are going to be gasping for breath after a few minutes, less if they use fire. And that's not even mentioning pockets of 'rotten air' which could duplicate a stinking cloud spell. Of course the inhabitants don't have to worry about breathing bad air...

Exactly you can make it work for you as much as the players.

[Skyrock]

In 3.5 Ravenloft, I honestly don't care much about Continual Light, not with all the Swordsages teleporting around every other round and all the other goofiness going on.
I rather view 3.5 Ravenloft compared to AD&D Ravenloft (or 5e Ravenloft) as the same as Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is to 8bit Castlevania (or the old Hammer horror films). The same mood is there, the same basic setting is there, but instead of being about a regular dude who can swing a whip and jump, and faces at worst a vampire who teleports and shoots small projectiles in predictable easily avoided patterns (or wrestle with a vampire and rappel on a rope, and faces at worst a vampire who wrestles back and scales walls), it is about a dude who can do a lot of outlandish stuff - but so does the evil opposition, and even more so. Regular darkness simply isn't much of an issue for a 3.5 character of level 3+ and something pedestrian to deal with - the high-powered things that lurk in it are the actual challenge and the actual horror.