Domain's Laws?

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Nox
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Domain's Laws?

Post by Nox »

Hi all,

Is there any place i can find Law for domains?

I know gazetteer are big source of information about any domain, but i read somewhere that in barovia no one can possess a weapon larger than a dagger, Is that true or is it Home ruled? If it is true, where can i find those informations?

Also, if it is true i think it will be a problem, how will people defend themselves from things like wolfs and such creatures?
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

Nox wrote:Hi all,

Is there any place i can find Law for domains?

I know gazetteer are big source of information about any domain, but i read somewhere that in barovia no one can possess a weapon larger than a dagger, Is that true or is it Home ruled? If it is true, where can i find those informations?

Also, if it is true i think it will be a problem, how will people defend themselves from things like wolfs and such creatures?

IIRC, the Barovian law is aimed at the subjugated Gundarakite people. I don't think it applies to all inhabitants. But I could be wrong.
( In the early version of the campaign setting, Gundarak was a seperate domain with its own dark-lord. That darklord, the vampire Duke Gundar, was overthrown/assassinated. During the " Grand Conjunction " domain borders shifted, some darklords perished or escaped, etc. Barovian forces occupied a large part of Gundarak, and those areas were absorbed into Barovia. The later materials make some use of the ethnic tension between the Barovians and the Gundarakites.)

In any case, I think you raise an excellent point. Daggers are good for assassination!
A staff only law might more sense. Travellers can use staves to fend off wolves. They could also beat or kill town guards with the staves, but a staff is at least hard to conceal.
Maybe only small knifes, as tools, are allowed. And those must be tied when not in use and carried in a town.
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Falkovnia?
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

IIRC Falkovnia's arms control laws are actually less strict than what the Barovians imposed on the conquered Gundarakites.

Falkovnians can own hunting bows, I think.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

The places to look:

2E Domains of Dread hardback


3E Gazetteers
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by Five »

ewancummins wrote:IIRC Falkovnia's arms control laws are actually less strict than what the Barovians imposed on the conquered Gundarakites.

Falkovnians can own hunting bows, I think.
"Falkovnian commoners may not own weapons beyond the crudest cudgels, daggers, and bows - the tools they need for work and daily subsistence." Gaz III, p. 99.

I already had it open for another thread. :)
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

Five wrote:
ewancummins wrote:IIRC Falkovnia's arms control laws are actually less strict than what the Barovians imposed on the conquered Gundarakites.

Falkovnians can own hunting bows, I think.
"Falkovnian commoners may not own weapons beyond the crudest cudgels, daggers, and bows - the tools they need for work and daily subsistence." Gaz III, p. 99.

I already had it open for another thread. :)
There you go.

They are allowed weapons they can use to hunt and to protect themselves from wolves and robbers. A crude cudgel can still brain a kobold; it isn't much, but it would do in a pinch.

I think the law would apply to foreigners entering Falkovnia, unless they had obtained special permission from the military.


Some PCs would probably go all Rambo when the guards come to confiscate their illegal swords and crossbows. :azalin:
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by Five »

"Foreigners must pay a tax of one gold piece per weapon at the Falkovnian border to retain their arms during their travels through the realm. Refusing this fee or failing to present travel papers that record its payment is punishable by death."

Plus they need to be peace-bonded (1d6+1 rounds to untie!).
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

- Jean Pierre Sarrasin, "The Memoirs of the Lord of Joinville"
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

Five wrote:"Foreigners must pay a tax of one gold piece per weapon at the Falkovnian border to retain their arms during their travels through the realm. Refusing this fee or failing to present travel papers that record its payment is punishable by death."

Plus they need to be peace-bonded (1d6+1 rounds to untie!).

Better pay up.

Or you'll be visiting Draccipteri as entertainment.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by Nox »

Thank you all! I found this topic really interesting, mostly to have more knowledge about the demi-plane himself...

Anyhow i'm quite sure that what I read was about barovia.

Is this law applicable to other domains(a part from falkovnia?) ? If so, which are the most suitable?

The law makes sense, even though a dagger, or a knife, it's more than enough to murder someone. Anyway I think that the fee for carrying a weapon is quite low. Shouldn't it be something like 5-10% the cost of the weapon? It would be more suitable for high level adventure, and it would maintain a certain logic. It could work?

The last point is: How would you prosecute the PC if they "Go all rambo" on the guards and slay them when they pretend the fees? (a part from powerchecks) I suppose they'll get a bounty or something similar (if someone survived to tell the story), right?

If they get caught with weapon non peace-bonded and without the papers, what should happen? would you order an execution right away or give them some way out?

I always have trouble with law enforcements and PC, cuz obviously I dont want my player to die, but I want them to feel the mood and the oppressive regime some place owns.

I'll make you an example, cuz i'm not sure if it's my fault that i do not give them clues on what's going on or if it just them:
VIEW CONTENT:
Party composed of 1 rogue, 1 barbarian, one wizard, and one paladin. Sorry if my english is bad, it's not my mother language.
Guards:"Stop! We are guards of "somerandomplace", Our law demands fees if you want to carry those weapons in our lands, otherwise you must left them here. If you pay the fee You'l receive a paper so you can keep them as you walk on our lands. Oh! Almost forgot: Weapon must be peace-bonded.

The barbarian and the rogue refuses to drop the weapons, and they obviously wont pay. Paladin and wizard pay the fee and walk away.

What will the guards do? If a fight start, than should I let the guard lose (I saw normal guards are level 1-2 or at most 3) or should I make them stronger in order to win the fight, submit them and imprison the PC?
Please try to cover all the possibilities while you answer me, so
I'll have plenty of information to think about.

Thank you in advance.
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

Nox wrote:Thank you all! I found this topic really interesting, mostly to have more knowledge about the demi-plane himself...

Anyhow i'm quite sure that what I read was about barovia.

Is this law applicable to other domains(a part from falkovnia?) ? If so, which are the most suitable?

The law makes sense, even though a dagger, or a knife, it's more than enough to murder someone. Anyway I think that the fee for carrying a weapon is quite low. Shouldn't it be something like 5-10% the cost of the weapon? It would be more suitable for high level adventure, and it would maintain a certain logic. It could work?

The last point is: How would you prosecute the PC if they "Go all rambo" on the guards and slay them when they pretend the fees? (a part from powerchecks) I suppose they'll get a bounty or something similar (if someone survived to tell the story), right?

If they get caught with weapon non peace-bonded and without the papers, what should happen? would you order an execution right away or give them some way out?

I always have trouble with law enforcements and PC, cuz obviously I dont want my player to die, but I want them to feel the mood and the oppressive regime some place owns.

I'll make you an example, cuz i'm not sure if it's my fault that i do not give them clues on what's going on or if it just them:
VIEW CONTENT:
Party composed of 1 rogue, 1 barbarian, one wizard, and one paladin. Sorry if my english is bad, it's not my mother language.
Guards:"Stop! We are guards of "somerandomplace", Our law demands fees if you want to carry those weapons in our lands, otherwise you must left them here. If you pay the fee You'l receive a paper so you can keep them as you walk on our lands. Oh! Almost forgot: Weapon must be peace-bonded.

The barbarian and the rogue refuses to drop the weapons, and they obviously wont pay. Paladin and wizard pay the fee and walk away.

What will the guards do? If a fight start, than should I let the guard lose (I saw normal guards are level 1-2 or at most 3) or should I make them stronger in order to win the fight, submit them and imprison the PC?
Please try to cover all the possibilities while you answer me, so
I'll have plenty of information to think about.

Thank you in advance.

I think nearly all executions in Falkovnia should take place at Draccipetri. If Drakov really has a person impaled for dinner entertainment on a nightly basis, that's over three hundred sixty executions a year. How many people live in your version of Falkovnia?
It makes sense to me that prisoners are carted to Draccipteri and tossed in a squalid dungeon. One by one , or sometimes in groups, they go to the stake for the " dinner show."

So PCs would have some time to attempt an escape before they arrived at the castle as prisoners. Once inside, they would likely be doomed, but I'd certainly play it out if the players wanted to attempt a desperate escape. Even if they didn't escape, they might forcie the guards to kill them in combat, thus avoiding a slow, horrible death on a stake.
Or maybe they'd get to fight Drakov himself? Even if he slaughters him, they still got to battle a darklord. :azalin:

As for being caught with unregistered or unbound weapons, I'd say immediate arrest would follow. Maybe a corrupt soldier could be bribed. But since Drakov loves impaling people, the bribes needed to get a soldier to take such risks might be large.
Last edited by ewancummins on Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

RE the hypothetical situation with the guards
VIEW CONTENT:
I think you should decide in advance how powerful the guards are and stick with that. No changes to help or hurt the player characters. The Black Box has a handy chart showing the classes, levels, and gear of enforcers in the different domains. Instead of adjusting the guards to the PCs, just use what seems most fitting and plausible to you. Drakov's soldiers with military weaponry are probably a cut above some Nova Vassa bully boys armed with cudgels.

If the PCs pick a fight with town guards and win, they may attract the attention of more guards. If it gets really out if hand, a mob might form. Or, much worse, they might come to the attention of the darklord, if this is a domain in which the darklord is the ruler.

If they lose, but didn't kill or maim any guards, maybe the judge will go easy on them. Hard labor, banishment, confiscation of gear, whatever. Again, I think you should go with what makes sense in game.

If you want to tip the players off that the local regime is oppressive and brutal, describe stuff like man-cages hanging from the town walls, prominently placed public gallows with fresh bodies swinging, the fearful looks the citizens given armed watch who are just passing by, etc.
Then, if they kill some guards over a petty dispute about weapons and end up dangling from nooses later...
Well, you did give them plenty of clues.

Heck,
"NO SWORD PERMIT " or "STABBED WATCHMAN" placard hanging around the neck of a corpse on the gallows by the town gate could save your party, if they are willing to heed the warning. Do that once and they might get it.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by Skyrock »

Note that the levels in the Black Box were for AD&D 2E, where most normal folks were simply level 0 (even exceptionally skilled people like Dr Mordenheim). Having even one level of fighter made you stand out among commoners, and a bunch of them could still wear down a higher level character.

Those levels don't translate well into 3.5 with its NPC classes and sharper divide between characters of different levels. You can easily double the levels and put them all into Warrior - and they will still be cannon fodder easily effectively disabled by a single well placed Glitterdust.
You'd need to add officers with levels in Warblade, Crusader and other souped up PC classes to make them a threat.
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by Nox »

Thanks for all the answers!
ewancummins wrote:RE the hypothetical situation with the guards
VIEW CONTENT:
I think you should decide in advance how powerful the guards are and stick with that. No changes to help or hurt the player characters. The Black Box has a handy chart showing the classes, levels, and gear of enforcers in the different domains. Instead of adjusting the guards to the PCs, just use what seems most fitting and plausible to you. Drakov's soldiers with military weaponry are probably a cut above some Nova Vassa bully boys armed with cudgels.

If the PCs pick a fight with town guards and win, they may attract the attention of more guards. If it gets really out if hand, a mob might form. Or, much worse, they might come to the attention of the darklord, if this is a domain in which the darklord is the ruler.

If they lose, but didn't kill or maim any guards, maybe the judge will go easy on them. Hard labor, banishment, confiscation of gear, whatever. Again, I think you should go with what makes sense in game.

If you want to tip the players off that the local regime is oppressive and brutal, describe stuff like man-cages hanging from the town walls, prominently placed public gallows with fresh bodies swinging, the fearful looks the citizens given armed watch who are just passing by, etc.
Then, if they kill some guards over a petty dispute about weapons and end up dangling from nooses later...
Well, you did give them plenty of clues.

Heck,
"NO SWORD PERMIT " or "STABBED WATCHMAN" placard hanging around the neck of a corpse on the gallows by the town gate could save your party, if they are willing to heed the warning. Do that once and they might get it.

About the mob, how would you go with them? I read of those mob pretty much everywhere since i'm part of this community, but still, I cant figure how they works.

The party starts a fight against guard in a moderately populated urban area. The party wins the fight but more guards show up to take em down. they somehow menage to win this one also. At this point the population brace their torch and pitforks and start charging the party. How should i rule this event? What happens when/if they get caught, and what if they don't?

And if I may ask you, how would you describe the progress(first fight - reinforces - mob) from the start to the end of this event? Cut the fighting part, just tell me how would you justify to the player the fact that more guards arrive on the scene, then after they slay or just make them unconscious, a mob forms and want them dead.

One of my many problems is that I usually go short on explanations, 'cause in m mind all make sense and I suppose that in other's mind is the same, but obviously it is not. So sometime when particular events occur my player end up asking me more information about what's going on and what's the logic of what is happening. Nevertheless I'm not good at emphasizing events and i like to improve in this. Lately i'm trying to take my time and describe the situation in the most accurate way, but still i'm far from being a good storyteller. If you have any advice on those point i'll be glad to hear them.
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Re: Domain's Laws?

Post by ewancummins »

Some ideas:


The guards themselves should call for reinforcement as soon as things start going at all badly for them. Maybe they blow a horn, or whistles. Do they carry clapper style noisemakers?
Retreat or withdraw if they aren't doing well. They want to live, right? So fall back, call for more men.
Surround the party.

Bystanders may also summon more guards.

If someone raises the hue and cry, a mob might form quickly in a town or city. The mob isn't likely to show suicidal bravery against a small but obviously dangerous party that just defeated or killed several guards. At first people will shout in anger, point fingers, call for help.
But maybe they start throwing loose paving stones and roofing tiles. That could be deadly!
If somebody drops a timber onto a PC from a rooftop...
The mod should be disorganized, especially as it forms and before any leader emerges. The party should probably have a few rounds to get away before angry locals close in.

Something else to consider:

If the government is oppressive, with the citizens hating the guards and the ruler, then maybe the party starts a riot by fighting the guards. The rioters might look to the PCs for leadership and help. The PCs could end up leading the rampaging mob, instead of fighting it.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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