To powercheck or not to powercheck?

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Nox
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To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by Nox »

Hi all!

One of the thing that mess me up the most with ravenloft is those holy powerchecks.

I like them, but i dont like them.

Fact is that player cant play some kind of character because those powercheck wont allow it..


For example a sorcerer who trade parts of his soul with devils to gain powers and eldritch knowledge it's not a playable character.. Even if the character is not evil, but uses the forces of evil to become more powerfull, It simply will not live long and if he does he will become an NPC due to this Powercheck rules...

This is what i dont like about powerchecks.

I like the fact that for every bad action there is "a boon and a curse"... I dont know how to handle this.

There are a lot of awesome magic items and such that are inherently evil... And for this they are not properly "usable".

I dont get how this should work. They made so much nice items, classes, spells, but if you Use them you probaby will end up being an NPC. What's the point?
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by ewancummins »

But if you are playing Faust, isn't the extreme risk of damnation a core part of the character concept?
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by ewancummins »

Powers checks are, of course, under your control as DM.
I do suggest trying out the system as written. I have found that it creates some situations in which the easy way out, the most convenient or most effective tactical options, involves taking serious moral and metaphysical risks. Does the PC wizard really want to risk using black magic to stop those bandits? Is summoning a demon to fight a vampire a wise idea?
Is that magical sword that steals souls something the fighter needs so badly he will risk his own soul for the power the sword gives him?

Ymmv
And all IMHO
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by jamesfirecat »

Nox wrote:Hi all!

One of the thing that mess me up the most with ravenloft is those holy powerchecks.

I like them, but i dont like them.

Fact is that player cant play some kind of character because those powercheck wont allow it..


For example a sorcerer who trade parts of his soul with devils to gain powers and eldritch knowledge it's not a playable character.. Even if the character is not evil, but uses the forces of evil to become more powerfull, It simply will not live long and if he does he will become an NPC due to this Powercheck rules...

This is what i dont like about powerchecks.

I like the fact that for every bad action there is "a boon and a curse"... I dont know how to handle this.

There are a lot of awesome magic items and such that are inherently evil... And for this they are not properly "usable".

I dont get how this should work. They made so much nice items, classes, spells, but if you Use them you probaby will end up being an NPC. What's the point?

If you have a concept you want to explore but can't due to power checks leading to a character becoming a NPC, consider talking with GM and with other players to figure out how to handle the rules best to fit the situation.

There's nothing inherently wrong or unravenloftish about running a campaign that actually bothers to fully show the entire protagonists journey to villain, the price they end up paying for their sins and thinking that they could outsmart morality/the Mists.

The rules about failing power checks leading to characters becoming unplayable is built to help keep the campaign on the rails, but if everyone goes into things knowing what to expect there's no reason why you can't have an interesting, exciting, and difficult campaign about how a certain character/group of characters end up getting in over their heads a little with the dark powers, and then a lot when one of them becomes Ravenloft's newest domain lord and will most likely have to deal with whatever horrible curse they have dragging them around as well as all the other darklords who want respect/subservience/trade/so on and so forth, the new kid on the block/the newest nation which just suddenly showed up.

I'd advise you to go reread I Strahd and especially it's sequel the War Against Azalin to help get a feel for what kind of problems/adventures Darklords might find themselves dealing with.
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by ewancummins »

I PMed you an example drawn from my Mists over the Musarde game, Nox.

The player wanted to start play as a kid who had already failed one powers check. His concept was pretty much doomed:a " sociopathic" killer.
But it worked very well in play. :azalin: And did not lead to a TPK.


The PC eventually became a darklord.

And this happened without him killing any PCs, except one, and that was only when that PC attacked him without proof of any wrongdoing. The other PCs actually helped him, because they believed he was innocent. And the one who attacked had himself begun walking down an evil path, with visible signs of corruption...
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by Nox »

ewancummins wrote:I PMed you an example drawn from my Mists over the Musarde game, Nox.

The player wanted to start play as a kid who had already failed one powers check. His concept was pretty much doomed:a " sociopathic" killer.
But it worked very well in play. :azalin: And did not lead to a TPK.


The PC eventually became a darklord.

And this happened without him killing any PCs, except one, and that was only when that PC attacked him without proof of any wrongdoing. The other PCs actually helped him, because they believed he was innocent. And the one who attacked had himself begun walking down an evil path, with visible signs of corruption...
Thank you very much, this makes sense... I'm the GM (or DM, as you prefer). I just need to get accostumed to the setting. I ran a campaign in which one of my player played an orchish barbarian, who kill people just because they stand in his way, he failed some power checks, and I was like "what the hell should i do with him now? he's almost a monster" and the player felt it. He felt doomed and finally throw the character against the darklord himself and ended up dead. Even if roleplay-wise he did the right choices, those choices were evil, and thus, he got cursed by DP...
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by ewancummins »

Nox wrote:
ewancummins wrote:I PMed you an example drawn from my Mists over the Musarde game, Nox.

The player wanted to start play as a kid who had already failed one powers check. His concept was pretty much doomed:a " sociopathic" killer.
But it worked very well in play. :azalin: And did not lead to a TPK.


The PC eventually became a darklord.

And this happened without him killing any PCs, except one, and that was only when that PC attacked him without proof of any wrongdoing. The other PCs actually helped him, because they believed he was innocent. And the one who attacked had himself begun walking down an evil path, with visible signs of corruption...
Thank you very much, this makes sense... I'm the GM (or DM, as you prefer). I just need to get accostumed to the setting. I ran a campaign in which one of my player played an orchish barbarian, who kill people just because they stand in his way, he failed some power checks, and I was like "what the hell should i do with him now? he's almost a monster" and the player felt it. He felt doomed and finally throw the character against the darklord himself and ended up dead. Even if roleplay-wise he did the right choices, those choices were evil, and thus, he got cursed by DP...

Cool, I'm glad the notes were helpful.

I think warning the players about powers checks is a good idea.
I don't mean issuing a warning every time a PC might do something that merits a check. I just mean telling the players before the campaign begins," In this setting, evil doers and those who use black magic may become warped by the powers of fate, sometimes even to the point of becoming monsters."

Then include an ingame example of a failed powers check, early on in gameplay. I wouldn't call it a powers check or explain the mechanics. Just show the players an example of an evildoer who was twisted for his sins.
Or work it into local legends. Or both.

If there are priests and other clergy in your Ravenloft, the native clerics may have some vague understanding that " the gods" or " the Mists" sometimes alter or transform villains, bringing out their monstrous nature. Is this a moral example to mankind? The favor of evil powers? The whimsy of mad gods? The answer depends on the priest and his sect.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by The Lesser Evil »

A couple of things:

a) You don't have to throw out the whole system, you can of course alter specific pieces of it (whether it be percentage chances or when the check is rolled.)

b) You could establish a threshold of evil that a character must do go past in order to go forward into the next stage of corruption. So it would take a crime greater to get to steps 3 or 4 than 1 or 2, for example. If the transgression falls below that threshold, it might not warrant a check.
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Re: To powercheck or not to powercheck?

Post by Nox »

Thank you all!

I knew there was a "revised powercheck rule" in some of the QotR, if I recall correctly. Someone remember in which one can i find it?
ewancummins wrote:
Nox wrote:
ewancummins wrote:I PMed you an example drawn from my Mists over the Musarde game, Nox.

The player wanted to start play as a kid who had already failed one powers check. His concept was pretty much doomed:a " sociopathic" killer.
But it worked very well in play. :azalin: And did not lead to a TPK.


The PC eventually became a darklord.

And this happened without him killing any PCs, except one, and that was only when that PC attacked him without proof of any wrongdoing. The other PCs actually helped him, because they believed he was innocent. And the one who attacked had himself begun walking down an evil path, with visible signs of corruption...
Thank you very much, this makes sense... I'm the GM (or DM, as you prefer). I just need to get accostumed to the setting. I ran a campaign in which one of my player played an orchish barbarian, who kill people just because they stand in his way, he failed some power checks, and I was like "what the hell should i do with him now? he's almost a monster" and the player felt it. He felt doomed and finally throw the character against the darklord himself and ended up dead. Even if roleplay-wise he did the right choices, those choices were evil, and thus, he got cursed by DP...

Cool, I'm glad the notes were helpful.

I think warning the players about powers checks is a good idea.
I don't mean issuing a warning every time a PC might do something that merits a check. I just mean telling the players before the campaign begins," In this setting, evil doers and those who use black magic may become warped by the powers of fate, sometimes even to the point of becoming monsters."

Then include an ingame example of a failed powers check, early on in gameplay. I wouldn't call it a powers check or explain the mechanics. Just show the players an example of an evildoer who was twisted for his sins.
Or work it into local legends. Or both.

If there are priests and other clergy in your Ravenloft, the native clerics may have some vague understanding that " the gods" or " the Mists" sometimes alter or transform villains, bringing out their monstrous nature. Is this a moral example to mankind? The favor of evil powers? The whimsy of mad gods? The answer depends on the priest and his sect.
About this i'd like if you could give me an example of the example (that sounds bad, i know) that you would give the players. Since I always played on Faerun in strict fantasy settings with little to no horror, i've a very little pool of experience and inspiration for twisted horrors and gruesome monsters.
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