5E Lamplighter

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5E Lamplighter

Post by Ender »

For those of you that use or have looked into 5E: if you were to make the Lamplighter PrC from Gaz III into a subclass, what base class would you use? I'm thinking Rogue since a number of the abilities are meant to render the opponent flat-footed, which doesn't exist in 5E, but could be substituted for allowing Sneak Attack. Additionally, the Hunch ability is very skill-oriented, which I'd place in the Rogue's wheelhouse. That said, I could also make a case for using Fighter, if you want the Lamplighter to be focused on combatting the supernatural evils in Mordent and its additional abilities help to give the Fighter a couple tricks at its disposal and making it a bit more well-rounded.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by alhoon »

Ehh... both are valid.
Don't be afraid to change the core of the class too BTW. If you think that sneak attack doesn't mess well with a lamplighter, change it. If you think ranger would be better but those spells are getting pesky, get rid of the ranger's spells.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Ender »

alhoon wrote:Ehh... both are valid.
Don't be afraid to change the core of the class too BTW. If you think that sneak attack doesn't mess well with a lamplighter, change it. If you think ranger would be better but those spells are getting pesky, get rid of the ranger's spells.
In general, I have no problem doing this for my home games. What I didn't mention, however, is that I'm thinking of using this in a Mordent-centric Ravenloft adventure that I'd consider putting up on the DM's Guild. And while I can still do that, I typically prefer to hew as close to 5E design standards and philosophy as I can when presenting my work to more than just my local gaming crew.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Skyrock »

The standard Lamplighter is essentially just an Inquisitive Rogue with the Watchman background.

I'd rather treat them as a Faction that employs a number of different characters (Rogues, Fighters, Monks etc.) rather then as a particular subclass.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Ender »

Skyrock wrote:The standard Lamplighter is essentially just an Inquisitive Rogue with the Watchman background.

I'd rather treat them as a Faction that employs a number of different characters (Rogues, Fighters, Monks etc.) rather then as a particular subclass.
They probably should be a faction or a new background, I don't disagree. I like the benefits the prestige class offered, though, and wonder how to translate that to 5E without using a subclass (unless, of course, I made a suite of subclasses, one for each base class, but that seems a bit excessive). I suppose a feat would work, but I loathe the idea of forcing the use of feats on someone if they want the abilities this should provide.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Jester of the FoS »

I think I just made the Lamplighter a background. It's an occupation: town guard or watchman.

The actual abilities could almost be wrapped up in a feat that reduces their obscurement from fog or mist but allows them to benefit from being light obscured.
It's very situational though. Almost better as an improvised action.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

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I think Jester's got the right of it: the Lamplighter is an occupation that is written to include every class but druids and barbarians. That would make it a background. Every ability that I've read is (I believe) one that can be taught, thus learned, and can be represented through individual feats...as opposed to a prestige class default. So your best bet would probably be to take the individual Lamplighter and give them two skill proficiencies that would compliment their expertise, as determined by their class(es). Maybe even Insight or Investigation (depending again on their specialization/function) and one other. A feat (free, ability score ding/trade, or even an IOU if you're down with story) can further establish the individual Lamplighter through "specific job duties".

Tool Proficiencies could be class/function-based as well. For example: an undercover Lamplighter might be proficient with disguise kits and forgery kits. So on and so forth.

Good Word and Solid Citizen are, by virtue, perks of the job. Should apply to all who publicly hold badge. Ex-badge holders could still carry these over through a handful of contacts maybe...the few individuals who remember the Lamplighter through their positive impact on their lives.

Night Eyes and Mist Defense should be reserved for those that actually patrol the streets in uniform, or who have for some time in their past.

Savvy and Hunch are for those who focus on, or who have focused on, investigating criminal activity (that is, on a regular basis).

None of this is to say that they all need to be separated all the time: a Lamplighter might start out his/her career by doing street patrols and eventually working their way off the beat and into a detective-type role. And they should be given full credit (through skills/feats/whatever you want to give them) for that time put in. That's up to you and your player. Obviously.

But as no Lamplighter should be treated as cookie-cutter (they are in part elite because they all hold PC classes, and this in turn makes them a multi-faceted organization), some difference between them needs to be made, imo.

Now, to 5E those 3E class abilities...
Last edited by Five on Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:48 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Zilfer »

Jester of the FoS wrote:I think I just made the Lamplighter a background. It's an occupation: town guard or watchman.

The actual abilities could almost be wrapped up in a feat that reduces their obscurement from fog or mist but allows them to benefit from being light obscured.
It's very situational though. Almost better as an improvised action.
I like this idea very much.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Five »

edit post (several bloody times haha)
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

- Jean Pierre Sarrasin, "The Memoirs of the Lord of Joinville"
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by Ender »

Five wrote:I think Jester's got the right of it: the Lamplighter is an occupation that is written to include every class but druids and barbarians. That would make it a background. Every ability that I've read is (I believe) one that can be taught, thus learned, and can be represented through individual feats...as opposed to a prestige class default. So your best bet would probably be to take the individual Lamplighter and give them two skill proficiencies that would compliment their expertise, as determined by their class(es). Maybe even Insight or Investigation (depending again on their specialization/function) and one other. A feat (free, ability score ding/trade, or even an IOU if you're down with story) can further establish the individual Lamplighter through "specific job duties".

Tool Proficiencies could be class/function-based as well. For example: an undercover Lamplighter might be proficient with disguise kits and forgery kits. So on and so forth.

Good Word and Solid Citizen are, by virtue, perks of the job. Should apply to all who publicly hold badge. Ex-badge holders could still carry these over through a handful of contacts maybe...the few individuals who remember the Lamplighter through their positive impact on their lives.

Night Eyes and Mist Defense should be reserved for those that actually patrol the streets in uniform, or who have for some time in their past.

Savvy and Hunch are for those who focus on, or who have focused on, investigating criminal activity (that is, on a regular basis).

None of this is to say that they all need to be separated all the time: a Lamplighter might start out his/her career by doing street patrols and eventually working their way off the beat and into a detective-type role. And they should be given full credit (through skills/feats/whatever you want to give them) for that time put in. That's up to you and your player. Obviously.

But as no Lamplighter should be treated as cookie-cutter (they are in part elite because they all hold PC classes, and this in turn makes them a multi-faceted organization), some difference between them needs to be made, imo.

Now, to 5E those 3E class abilities...
These are good suggestions, but I'm trying very hard to avoid using Feats for this. My main reason is that Feats are optional. Yes, I use them in all my games, but if I want to provide all players in this adventure with a means of becoming a Lamplighter and getting the mechanical benefits out of it, I feel like using a Feat is the wrong choice, since a DM might say they're not using Feats.

Good Word and Solid Citizen affect roleplaying and have no real mechanical benefit in 5E, since OR isn't really a thing. It would easily fit a Background Feature or an Organization's or Faction's benefit.

Night Eyes could probably be rewritten like so, incorporating Darkvision:

"You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray. In addition, moving through nonmagical difficult terrain created by adverse weather conditions costs you no extra movement. Strong winds and heavy precipitation do not impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks, nor do you treat anything within such areas as lightly or heavily obscured."

I'm not sure how best to convert this. It could be a feat... but I just don't like that idea.

Mist Defense is essentially the Warding Flare ability of the Light Domain, but with a free attack at higher levels. More than any of the other abilities, this strikes me as the one most like a class feature, and not simply because of its similarity to a pre-existing one. It's very unlike abilities granted by Feats, which are far more generic or varied. An interesting thought might be to make a Lamplighter's lantern a magic item or something like a magic item. Much like a net has specific mechanics associated with it, we could create a lantern that acts as a regular lantern, but does more for someone proficient with its use, which can be granted by the Lamplighter background. The catch is the ultimate use of this ability to step into the Near Ethereal. The rest of the ability is tied to the lantern, but that last bit isn't. Is the ability perhaps a bit too supernatural? Would it make sense to drop it from the background?

Savvy, on the other hand, provides a number of generic abilities. Some combat-oriented, some not. This entire ability can probably be dropped for the benefits provided by whatever class the character is. The combat abilities are much like Fighting Styles while the skill ability is essentially Expertise.

Hunch... is advantage. That's it. It's not that special in 5E, come to think of it. Frankly, this could be dropped in its entirety and I wouldn't bat an eye.

So given all that, I'm inclined to agree that the Lamplighter can be made a Background with little issue and that I probably don't need to make a Feat for it, though there are a few issues.
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Re: 5E Lamplighter

Post by alhoon »

Jester of the FoS wrote:I think I just made the Lamplighter a background. It's an occupation: town guard or watchman.

The actual abilities could almost be wrapped up in a feat that reduces their obscurement from fog or mist but allows them to benefit from being light obscured.
It's very situational though. Almost better as an improvised action.
There was an UA about how to make good feats.
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