Black Box thoughts

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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Five »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:
The Lesser Evil wrote:
Five wrote: Lamordia - CL 8 (down 1)
Dementlieu - CL 8 (down 1)
Quibbling, but Lamordia and Dementlieu are both Renaissance (9) cultural level domains.
I believe Five was saying that he is deliberately moving them down 1 to CL8.
Not me, ewancummins.

I was just providing a visual of the idea provided, more to confirm than anything else.

But yes, it was a deliberate drop in an effort to balance the CL "gaps" in the Core.
Last edited by Five on Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Five »

ewancummins wrote:
Five wrote:So these ghoulish Thaani...as they are said to be simplistic in psychic nature, do they eat the brains/bodies of their victims to somehow alleviate the pain of the assumably sometimes starving Feyrs sucking/scratching at their feeble output? Are they, the ghouls, actually absorbing the psyches of their victims and "trading" it to their dream masters?

I would imagine that the greater Feyrs' numbers are reduced with this starvation. If so, is there some sort of payment for the Thaani in helping keeping around greater Feyrs? Are they granted some sort of normalcy? A temporary dream of a blissful nature, or, ways things were/could have been/never can be?
Not sure.

But those are good suggestions. :D

Hungry feyrs fits with the terrible nightmares of things coming up from underground that plague sleepers in Bluetspur, as per the Black Box.
Not suggestions, "imagination prods"...:)

And yeah, it fits real smooth, IMO.

"Each night spent here brings horrid dreams. The dreamer imagines dark, foul creatures slinking out from the rock and devouring all that is good. A horror check is required when the character awakes." - Realm of Terror, p. 66

Like a glove.

Keep it up and I may put Bluetspur back in the box.
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

- Jean Pierre Sarrasin, "The Memoirs of the Lord of Joinville"
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:
The Lesser Evil wrote:
Five wrote: Lamordia - CL 8 (down 1)
Dementlieu - CL 8 (down 1)
Quibbling, but Lamordia and Dementlieu are both Renaissance (9) cultural level domains.
I believe Five was saying that he is deliberately moving them down 1 to CL8.

Yep.

That matches my suggestion.
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Five »

The Lesser Evil wrote:Quibbling, but Lamordia and Dementlieu are both Renaissance (9) cultural level domains.
To be perfectly honest with you, I think CL 9 is better fitted for Gothic Earth, in a sort of "Dark Ages" sub-campaign setting option. That would give it the 1550 A.D. to 2016 A.D. (modern) range. But that's just me.

Back to Bluetspur...

The Ildi'Thaan. There is said (Forbidden Lore) that there were 13 survivors from the Mt. Makab disaster. Each wrote 13 texts that are believed to contain the history of their people and ancient knowledge that when read as a whole will grant secret powers over their "elder masters" to the reader. Presumably this refers to psionics (and/or dreamwalking/scaping, etc) and the elder masters as either the Feyr or the Nightmare Court, depending on how refined/advanced the Thaani were in cropping dreams for their reality-altering purposes.

Could the ancient Thaani be the usurped masters of the now-named Nightmare Lands?

As a whole, the Ildi'Thaan have managed to barely tap psionics in the 150 years since they fled the disaster. A few wild talents and a science peppered here or there. Are they some sort of half-breed (Abber-Thaani)? Their minds may have been able to slowly adapt, to start to develop to a higher state, now that they aren't being leeched by the Feyr (and thus Nightmare Court)...

If so, then is the Nightmare Court intentionally leeching the ghoulish/pureblood Thaani in an effort to keep them powerless?

I will be reading the Nightmare Lands boxed set really soon, and fully, so I honestly don't know how much this will clash with the material in it.

But flipping through, I did see an entry on the feyr. They're written to be what I would call "contractors" for the Nightmare Court...not that that has to change anything you got going on ewancummins. Just thought I'd blurb.

Anyway, these are just more questions...ignore them if they're of no help.
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

It's all helpful, even if I don't use it all. Ideas feed ideas.

Thank you.

I think I have G'Henna worked out to my personal satisfaction, after a few stabs at adjusting and expanding the domain.
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Five wrote:
ewancummins wrote: The Barovian Church maintains its de facto headquarters in Borca, although its leader bears the title Abbot of Krezk.The Devil Strahd kills any powerful clerics who dare show themselves in his domain.
Although much diminished in its ancient heartland, the Church has spread into other central and southern domains.
You're running that as a legit religion, hey?

I've always been meaning to run that as something slightly less than. A cult of good intentions, but not a (magic-imbuing) religion in D&D terms.

Not that I'm combatting you. Just saying.

Also, I'd be interested in a quick cap of your moulding of the Nightmare Lands and Bluetspur. Hell, be as detailed as you like. Bluetspur was always "meh" with me, and the Nightmare lands have huge potential, as far as I'm concerned.

Even a link if you got it.

We discussed some possibilities for the Nightmare Lands and Bluetspur above.

RE the High Faith and the Barovian Church:
My ideas remain fluid on these.

I might go back to a concept I messed about with sometime ago, in which gothic heroines/damsels like Tatyana/Ireena and Virginia Weathermay are echoed by a goddess in the mists. Very much like Ezra, then, and inspired by her. Though maybe not with that name, as using it would probably lead my players to assume the official Ezra lore was in play.
The goddess was once mortal, or manifests in seemingly mortal avatars.
She might simply be called The Lady.

Names/titles:

Das Heilege Madchen in Lamordia
Lady of the Morning in Barovia
The Gray Queen in Darkon
Etc.

And always she is opposed to/pursued by the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Bloody Devil.
Last edited by ewancummins on Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Kanchelsis
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Other thoughts:
1

Witchweed
Not the real plant, but the FR plant. Unless those are the same thing. This stuff grows in Hazlan, especially along the scorched borders after Hazlik performs his fire rituals to repel invaders or to hem in fugitives.
Remembering the way the mad Karanoks of Luthcheq destroyed wizards and witches on his homeworld, Hazlik recognized the witchweed growths he found in his new country, and quickly adopted the custom of burning sorcerers at the stake with bundles of the plant for fuel.

Hazlanis believe using witchweed to burn a witch helps protect the mob from the witch's curses and vengeful spirit.

(This is based on FR materials describing Chessenta, of course)


2


The Mora, and the singers of Kartakass

The Choir religion added to Kartakass in later canon is cool.

But it might be interesting to assume Kartakass has few/no native spellcasting priests and no " church" seperate from its government.
Instead, it is the singers and storytellers who play the role of clergy. Meistersingers preside over civic/religious rituals. This all seems implied by the Black Box notes about the mora category of songs.


3 Homeworld influences


The Black Box contains a good number of references to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance.
Nothing about Greyhawk, though.

One way to flesh out domains is to look at where the darklord came from, and use some material related to that place.

For Drakov

http://dragonlancenexus.com/lexicon/ind ... tle=Thenol


I believe HumanBing has created extensive fan material on Drakov, using Time of the Dragon as a source.

It makes sense to me that Drakov would be leery of creating an landowning hereditary nobility or allowing an organized religion to gain much power. As a Thenolite of his age and profession, he'd be well aware of how strong nobles overruled and ignored the figurehead King, and hosthe whole realm fell into the power of a necromancer-priest.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Five »

ewancummins wrote:
RE the High Faith and the Barovian Church:
My ideas remain fluid on these.

I might go back to a concept I messed about with sometime ago, in which gothic heroines/damsels like Tatyana/Ireena and Virginia Weathermay are echoed by a goddess in the mists. Very much like Ezra, then, and inspired by her. Though maybe not with that name, as using it would probably lead my players to assume the official Ezra lore was in play.
The goddess was once mortal, or manifests in seemingly mortal avatars.
She might simply be called The Lady.

Names/titles:

Das Heilege Madchen in Lamordia
Lady of the Morning in Barovia
The Gray Queen in Darkon
Etc.

And always she is opposed to/pursued by the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Bloody Devil.
You may find inspiration in William Blake's "The Book of Thel":

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems- ... tail/43651

I see (or, can see) a Ravenloftian circle in it myself, between the Doubt/Torment, the Voice, and the Retreat. Very...Barovian IMO, when combined with your brief above.

I may be wrong (it's my way to find right, so I'm used to it haha), but I'd be interested to see want you, or anybody else for that matter, can wring from it (with the intention of providing seeds for you/your version of the Barovian Church).
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

- Jean Pierre Sarrasin, "The Memoirs of the Lord of Joinville"
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Five »

All, or most, of the following assumptions and force-fit ideas will be based out of the material found in the Black Box. This is simply effect: I will be pre-dating Strahd with a version of the Lady of the Morning (patent pending, ewancummins? heh ). In fact, I plan on taking a bit of piss out of Strahd while doing so, not because I'm anti-anything, but because I want to work with ewancummins in making the Church a little more seamless. You'll see what I mean as I drop some admittedly vague ideas.

Pre-Ravenloft Barovia.

The Lady of the Morning is born in mortal form.

The young lady is the darling daughter of Barovia (the village). She is it's smile, it's joy, it's very heart. Her innocence is eternal.

(Barovians are none of this now...)

The Lady grows up to become the precursor to a non-persecuted witch of Hala. Her influence/adoration spreads as she begins to travel the country in her chariot of charity.

Some years later She encounters the Stranger.

(Barovians don't like strangers...)

Over time the Lady falls in love with this silver-tongued Devil and after proper courtship they marry in a fairytale celebration.

(Barovians still do love to see the occasional couple celebrate their love so openly and freely: it's a national re-living of memories for them...)

The Stranger's influence, his whispers of Evil, begin to wilt this morning flower of a young woman. She begins to see the darker things in life. Her questions are her burden, and the answers are her prison.

(Barovians really don't like strangers...)

The village priest, an exemplary servant of Andral (?), becomes suspicious of the Stranger but shortly after disappears without a trace. The young woman, who has worked very closely with and for the church all her life, becomes distraught and begins to search for her mentor. Road is labyrinth but leads her home, to the Stranger. Stranger laughs. Woman cries. Stranger weaves dark magic and binds the woman to his will. Woman begins to corrupt the villagers of Barovia and surrounding areas on behalf of the Stranger, who has now moved into a temple secluded in the mountains. The sun begins to set on the Barovian heart.

Eventually, but only after much pain and sorrow, the will of the woman begins to glow. Dim at first, but it begins to brighten. She finds herself prostrate before the altar/picture/icon/statue of Andral (?) and unbound prayers for the people of Barovia pour from her heart and soul. The rain dies to a drizzle and the clouds begin to clear. The Lady's light begins to smoulder, and she continues her journey of mercy.

The Stranger, through his other evil pawns, becomes furious and his retaliation is intentionally obliterated from the memories of future generations.

Before the Lady can make her move against the Stranger she is captured. All manners of evil are visited upon her, both in the mountain temple and in the village square. Barovia weeps.

But somehow, the Lady's light refused to be extinguished. For every tear the lady saw trailing the cheeks of the villagers, for every sob that fell upon her ears, her light brightened. Words that betrayed her mortal condition flowed from her mouth. The people, too afraid to do anything but stay, listened. The light began to burn away the darkness. The Stranger would appear in the flesh before the people of Barovia. Darkness began to smother the light.

And I'm out of time.

I'll continue this some other time, and probably clean it up some for presentation purposes: I'm kind of shooting from the hip here. The thoughts I took from the poem aren't translating into words like I thought they would. I'm losing them as I type letters. haha.

Anybody else? Go mad...:)
"A very piteous thing it was to see such a quantity of dead bodies, and such an outpouring of blood - that is, if they had not been enemies of the Christian faith."

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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Five wrote:
ewancummins wrote:
RE the High Faith and the Barovian Church:
My ideas remain fluid on these.

I might go back to a concept I messed about with sometime ago, in which gothic heroines/damsels like Tatyana/Ireena and Virginia Weathermay are echoed by a goddess in the mists. Very much like Ezra, then, and inspired by her. Though maybe not with that name, as using it would probably lead my players to assume the official Ezra lore was in play.
The goddess was once mortal, or manifests in seemingly mortal avatars.
She might simply be called The Lady.

Names/titles:

Das Heilege Madchen in Lamordia
Lady of the Morning in Barovia
The Gray Queen in Darkon
Etc.

And always she is opposed to/pursued by the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Bloody Devil.
You may find inspiration in William Blake's "The Book of Thel":

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems- ... tail/43651

I see (or, can see) a Ravenloftian circle in it myself, between the Doubt/Torment, the Voice, and the Retreat. Very...Barovian IMO, when combined with your brief above.

I may be wrong (it's my way to find right, so I'm used to it haha), but I'd be interested to see want you, or anybody else for that matter, can wring from it (with the intention of providing seeds for you/your version of the Barovian Church).

Blake, FTW.

Thanks. :azalin:


I actually have a volume of his work on the shelf.
It may well contain The Book of Thel. I'll have a look.


I like your stuff in the post above. I need to read the Blake poem several times and sleep on it a couple of nights, I think.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Nox »

Hi, I dont want to go off topic, but I dont want to create a new post for a simple question neither.

Since you are talking about black box (can I ask you what is it and what it contains in short?) and old ravenloft modules/manuals, I wonder if it is hard and time consuming to convert those material to play them in 3.5?

I found lot of good stuff in older manuals and adventures. There is any good guide on converting old material to 3.5?
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by ewancummins »

Nox wrote:Hi, I dont want to go off topic, but I dont want to create a new post for a simple question neither.

Since you are talking about black box (can I ask you what is it and what it contains in short?) and old ravenloft modules/manuals, I wonder if it is hard and time consuming to convert those material to play them in 3.5?

I found lot of good stuff in older manuals and adventures. There is any good guide on converting old material to 3.5?
There was a conversion guide for AD&D 2nd Edition to 3E/D20.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.

-from Moby Dick (Hermann Melville)
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Nox »

ewancummins wrote:
Nox wrote:Hi, I dont want to go off topic, but I dont want to create a new post for a simple question neither.

Since you are talking about black box (can I ask you what is it and what it contains in short?) and old ravenloft modules/manuals, I wonder if it is hard and time consuming to convert those material to play them in 3.5?

I found lot of good stuff in older manuals and adventures. There is any good guide on converting old material to 3.5?
There was a conversion guide for AD&D 2nd Edition to 3E/D20.
Thank you, i'll take a look!
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Re: Black Box thoughts

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

ewancummins wrote:There was a conversion guide for AD&D 2nd Edition to 3E/D20.
It's not super-helpful, though. I've converted many a 2e adventure to 3e and never really used it. Just pick the appropriate 3e creature to replace the 2e creatures, etc.
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