Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

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Dion of the Fraternity
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Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by Dion of the Fraternity »

Considering that the events leading up to it and its effects on the land are literally world-changing, and considering how end-of--the-world scenarios can apparently happen multiple times (re: Buffy), I'm going with "yes." But I'd like to know about your opinions on this. Gracias. :)
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by Hamiclar »

Yes it totally is look at Tepest as an example the rise of the inquisition and their war on the fey, the adventure circle of darkness is another example in that Yagno declares their is only one zhakata the devourer not the provider.
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by hidajiremi »

Consider the original Biblical meaning of "apocalypse" as well--a revelation, or an uncovering of knowledge. An apocalypse is a disclosure of something hidden, which leads to change. It doesn't necessarily mean a disaster or an end of the world, though that's become the common modern meaning. I'd say the Grand Conjunction would definitely qualify as an apocalypse in the original meaning, but only marginally as the modern meaning.
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by Buzzclaw »

I think that in the common modern of apocalypse in definitely qualifies. Part of it is a Raveloft-focused apocalypse; everything goes to hell in a handbasket. On the other hand it's also a multiversal apocalypse as Darklords and creatures of the night flood every plane.
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by ewancummins »

hidajiremi wrote:Consider the original Biblical meaning of "apocalypse" as well--a revelation, or an uncovering of knowledge. An apocalypse is a disclosure of something hidden, which leads to change. It doesn't necessarily mean a disaster or an end of the world, though that's become the common modern meaning. I'd say the Grand Conjunction would definitely qualify as an apocalypse in the original meaning, but only marginally as the modern meaning.

Hyksosa's Hexad would be the apocalypse, then.
The Grand Conjuction would be the prophetic fulfillment of the events foretold/foreshadowed in the apocalypse of that Dukkar (Hyksosa).

What the GC is not is the (or an) eschaton. It did not end time/the world.

That might be the coming Time of Unparalelled Darkness, or some event beyond it.


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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by thekristhomas »

Buzzclaw wrote:I think that in the common modern of apocalypse in definitely qualifies. Part of it is a Raveloft-focused apocalypse; everything goes to hell in a handbasket. On the other hand it's also a multiversal apocalypse as Darklords and creatures of the night flood every plane.
Something I'd never really thought about til this, what did happen in the other worlds with the darklords released?
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by Hell_Born »

Personally? I figured that the loss of darklord curse took with it a lot of the essential darklord boons, including - nay, especially - the Undying Soul and other features that give darklords their notorious "get out of death free" cards. Add that to being in worlds no longer operating under the Gothic Horror rules of Ravenloft (or at least not so strongly), including the whole "villains are stronger" paradigm?

End result is that, in my headcanon at least, a lot of darklords got themselves squished. Let's face it, Harkon Lukas is a Bad Puppy in Ravenloft, where you're low magic and he can survive by possessing a random wolf, but if returned to his native Faerun? He's going to be a wolfskin rug in short order.
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Re: Could the Grand Conjunction be considered an Apocalypse?

Post by thekristhomas »

Hell_Born wrote:Personally? I figured that the loss of darklord curse took with it a lot of the essential darklord boons, including - nay, especially - the Undying Soul and other features that give darklords their notorious "get out of death free" cards. Add that to being in worlds no longer operating under the Gothic Horror rules of Ravenloft (or at least not so strongly), including the whole "villains are stronger" paradigm?

End result is that, in my headcanon at least, a lot of darklords got themselves squished. Let's face it, Harkon Lukas is a Bad Puppy in Ravenloft, where you're low magic and he can survive by possessing a random wolf, but if returned to his native Faerun? He's going to be a wolfskin rug in short order.
normally i would agree, take a darklord out of ravenloft and suddenly vampires are just vampires, but the adventure module states that the rules of ravenloft DO apply during the conjunction
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