[5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

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alhoon
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by alhoon »

Quinntonia wrote:Hrm. It's been a little bit since I read it, I'm trying to think about what I would have to change to run it, I'm struggling a little bit.

Well, NPC stats for starters.
There are near the beginning two awesome goblins that are in the Silken paths, a chasm 2000' wide, 500' deep covered in myriad of spider webbings that lead to countless openings all over the cliff walls. These two goblin acrobats ran around the place skiing on the webbings.
Well, every 500' you have to roll for encounter since the vibrations get attention. 1 in 1d6 is encounter about 1/3 the encounter is 2-8 giant spiders.
The goblins are... stock goblins with acrobatics+6. There is no way on earth (or under it) they would survive more than a single day in the Silken paths.

And there are countless such cases.

Enhancing already good ideas is another thing. The adventure is so good* that it pushes you to want to add your own spice to the stew.
The Lost tomb is another example of "I want to do some work". (Kinda Ravenloftish)
A powerful sorceress has been awoken by the arrival of the demon lords as a wraith and her 4 loyal servants as spectres. The sorceress is anchored on her tomb and needs to gather life-force to escape its confines. So far so good.
But: I totally need to give her an allergen. I also decided to give her a little spellcasting power, fueled by stolen life-energy. The more energy she steals, the more magic she can use and the closer she gets to release. BUT using that magic puts her back on her goal to escape.

And those were just from the top of my mind.

* originally includes an intelligent sunblade... that has abandonment issues! We get character depth from a sword! That's what I like in adventures.
The sword (feminine) should totally hung out with Ebonbane (sword too I think). "You have been trapped in this place for how long? Dude! I was forgotten, lost, abandoned for millennia! Don't you ever dare to grumble to me about your confinement!"
Last edited by alhoon on Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by alhoon »

And since we're in the subject of "Stealing things from Out of the Abyss to Ravenloft"
The lost tomb and the witch are totally steal-able. She already has a curse: is undead and craves for the warmth of the living, and wants to use it to break away and do bad things.

Now, it could just be me but there is a Ravenloft short adventure there:
- Throw in a wannabe wizard apprentice that she uses to lure victims to her. She resists killing him until she finds a better candidate.
- Change the 4 specters of her loyal followers to "as many specters of her victims as I like.
- Throw in a warlock specter of her previous, discarded apprentice. I.e. a specter that also has 1 warlock spell and can use eldritch blast.
- Add skeletons of her past guards and pump them to CR 1/2.
- Add an allergen (haven't thought of what yet, certainly not dawnbringer, an advanced sunblade)
- The set-aside apprentice specter has enough free will to converse with the PCs for a couple of rounds before he\she\it has to follow orders and attack them.
- Tone down the fantasy\magic of the place. (Why on earth would you need sovereign glue on a human sized stone statue "to make sure it can't be moved"?)
- Along with the above, make sure to get rid of the dawnbringer intelligent sword (advanced sunblade) inside the invisible sarcophagus.
- Discard the chaotic magic feature cause it doesn't fit with Ravenloft very well
- After the PCs returned, rightfully angered, to confront the apprentice, he\she has the backing of a spectre or shadow bodyguard to make the fight somewhat more interesting.

For those that have the adventure: Make the place bigger, put the apprentice in the false tomb room, the specters in the shrine room and the skeletons in the followers room (where the spectres originally were).
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by Quinntonia »

I guess I can see what you are saying about the goblins. I guess I'm a little bit more narrativist than simulationist on that front then. I don't see the encounter numbers as a static situation wherein all the world needs to work through, least of all these goblins, but rather a series of rules that facilitate the heroes' stories.

But meh. I think we both agree that it is awesome and I also love your ideas about the sorceress.
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by alhoon »

Thanks. Keep in mind that the Adventure was written probably for DMs like you in mind, which is a good thing IMO. Stats I can make. It's more session-prep than I usually do, but I can make them even on the fly. Such a delightful stories, non-linear, with deep NPCs and very nice "on theme" art? Nah, those are rare.

If only they have done a little more in the stats front and were a somewhat more close to what's believable and expected from people with survival insticts, it would be my favorite adventure ever (no, 2 drow slavers accompanying 4 quaggoth angry slaves is not possible, they would be dead. No, 1 drow merchant would be insanely foolish to traverse the underdark for a week, alone or with a couple of bugbears.)
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by Quinntonia »

Haha, I get that. I do enjoy that you are willing to adjust as necessary so you can sleep at night. And though I sometimes wonder if my players will ever notice, I know that I have usually worked out every damn bit of backstory for everyone they ever meet....or lese I couldn't stand it.
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by Jester of the FoS »

alhoon wrote:There are near the beginning two awesome goblins that are in the Silken paths, a chasm 2000' wide, 500' deep covered in myriad of spider webbings that lead to countless openings all over the cliff walls. These two goblin acrobats ran around the place skiing on the webbings.
Well, every 500' you have to roll for encounter since the vibrations get attention. 1 in 1d6 is encounter about 1/3 the encounter is 2-8 giant spiders.
The goblins are... stock goblins with acrobatics+6. There is no way on earth (or under it) they would survive more than a single day in the Silken paths.
Keep in mind that it's an adventure not a sourcebook; while you can use the content for other characters at other times, the encounters are designed for those PCs are that time.
It's not "every creature that travels 500 feet has a 5% chance of fighting giant spiders". It's just the PCs. If the DM is rolling random encounters and running combats for off camera NPCs going from point A to B they're making a tonne of work for themselves.

The players themselves don't notice the triggering; they don't know how frequent an encounter is, or how common giant spiders are. They're just happen to encounter some spiders. It could be random or a planned encounter.
(Otherwise, the spiders would also trigger this event and double their numbers.)

Adventures regularly bend reality behind the scenes, as adventurers seldom meet creatures they're completely incapable of defeating or that prove no challenge at all. And the villain never sends their most powerful forces out to crush the upstart adventurers.
5e has brought non-combat encounters back and shifted the range of challenges, but random encounters do change based on the level of the party
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

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First, those are encounters that the PCs can stumble upon on level 2 up to level 10+.
Hence the note "do the work dude" on the encounters that tell me exactly that: those are examples, I should show common sense when making encounters. 8 giant spiders would decimate a 2nd lvl party while 2 giant spiders are not an encounter worth the time for a 7th lvl party. And then, the adventure proceeds on giving me hints on how to handle encounters that would be too hard for the PCs.


What on the random merchant that travels ALONE in the Underdark? The first time, I could wing it and say "you see a drow, with dried blood on its worn clothes along with a weary bugbear mercenary in the same condition. It's obvious they're the remnants of a merchant caravan that was under attack. They both seem wary of you but unwilling to engage in further combat"
The 2nd time? The 3rd time?


Gon, it's simple: They expect me to do my job (the horror!) while they provide me with the story. It's not possible to give me 15 tables of encounters for levels 1-15. Well, it is since oD&D did it, but it's ridiculous and beyond the scope of the adventure. So they tell me: "Giant spiders. How many? More or less as many as you want. Ignore them if you find the encounter boring and put a Halfling spy instead; here's his backstory. Or a madman; here's his story. Or whatever you prefer; here are 10 backstories"
That's cool actually in retrospect, after I got out of the "Meh! Where are the drow stats I wanteeeeed!" whiny mood.

I got over it and made drow stats. I could provide them. I will actually at some point in the generic D&D part of the forum.

But seriously, this adventure has a ton of hidden gems. The "here's a X, here's 3 lines of X's backstory" has lots of stuff that I can steal in Ravenloft. I could play the adventure 3 times (At least up to the 3rd chapter) and use all the material in it.
You say it's not a setting... you haven't read it! It's half a setting. Waaaay more than Spider Queen adventures. I remind you Ravenloft started from an adventure and became a setting.

And yes, I'll blaspheme: Out of the Abyss is IMO a better adventure than Ravenloft was.
You can bring on the pitchforks.
Don't ban me though! Ravenloft was a great adventure for its time. And it holds very well, especially in 5th edition. And has TONS of atmosphere.
But... I prefer OotA.
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Re: [5e] Out of the Abyss and madness

Post by Quinntonia »

Bold words....and I think I agree.

I6 is a classic, and with most classics, it is best understood as groundbreaking for its time, not that we have never been able to top it.
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