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Orcs, Goblins, and their kins 
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Evil Genius
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Post Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Hi all, I have a question.
In ravenloft, as stated in RPHB, orcs are unknown even as legendary creature. Said so, i was reading Van Richter Guide to Werebeast, and "he" mentions orcs, goblin, troll etc as races that can be affected by the curse... how can he know Orcs if there is no orcs in Ravenloft? (note that VRG to Werebeast is a AD&D 2.0 book so maybe it changed in 3.5, if so, please inform me).

Stated that Orcs and half-orcs are not present, what about goblins and other orc-like creatures? do they exist?
thanks in advance


Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:35 am
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
There are definately goblins in tepest (but whether they are goblins like in other worlds, less clear)

In I10 the second original adventure there was an entire tribe of orcs living in caves north of Mordentshire-upon-sea, I have often wondered what happened to them.

There's also an orc in Carnival by the name of Tosk


Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:56 am
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Invisible Menace
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
The RPHB is wrong about orcs. :)

And there are goblins in Ravenloft. And hobgoblins and bugbears. Tepest has many but there are probably a few in other places.

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Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:55 am
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Over the last two and a half decades Ravenloft has been around, there's been a lot of material produced, and a fair amount of them have had either unintentional contradictions or outright retcons. This is just a case of which you think is more important. In any case, if orcs exist in Ravenloft, they will probably be very rare.


Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:58 pm
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Not in my campaign. ;)

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Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:03 pm
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
alhoon wrote:
Not in my campaign. ;)


Do they still breed like bunnies?

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Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Orcs are supposed to breed like bunnies? I have a rating for their increase\decrease, depending on available resources and how active their enemies in the area are and how good at exterminating orcs.

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Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:46 am
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Well considering the 'base orc' lives for an average of about 40 years. (Life span not including war) If you look up Orc on a Forgotten Realms wiki you see generally the same.

VIEW CONTENT:
Orcs breed fast and live short lives compared with most other races. They are considered adults anywhere between 11 and 14 years of age; they are considered middle-aged at 17, old at 23, and venerable at 35 years of age. The average orc seldom lives longer than 40 years, even if it manages to avoid violent death. It is unheard of for an orc to live longer than 45 years without magical aid.[9]


Hence at my table the joke is they breed like bunnies, which is to say they breed really fast, and probably is the reason they always have large numbers for war after war and inter fighting between them all. Otherwise I'm sure their population would probably dwindle even more with other factors put in. But as always it's subject to your game.

I know in shadowrun that has "orks" they give birth to "litters".

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Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:39 pm
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Refueling my obsession with I10, what do we suppose happened to the tribe holed up in the caves, there were 83 orcs there led by Hargel Gruumsh, protected from vampires by a stand of garlic, yet some of their number were converted.

There seems a good chance that they survived the events of that module as they were not directly involved in the main plot, but even if they were to survive, the impression I got from the text (and I might be wrong) that the were an all male raiding party rather than a full tribe, so maybe long term survival might be problematic, but there still seems scope foe at least half orcs


Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 am
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
First, you can assume that the raiding party included women as raiders or concubines\cooks etc.
Or you can assume that it didn't or that they were all slaughtered within a few years because a strand of Garlic is not enough to protect you from vampires when they can send a trio charmed people to remove it. Or that Barovians killed them 5-6 at a time.

Personally I think that 83 orcs alone in the midst of humans have small chances of survival. They will be thinned out fast.

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Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:30 am
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Evil Genius
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
alhoon wrote:
First, you can assume that the raiding party included women as raiders or concubines\cooks etc.
Or you can assume that it didn't or that they were all slaughtered within a few years because a strand of Garlic is not enough to protect you from vampires when they can send a trio charmed people to remove it. Or that Barovians killed them 5-6 at a time.

Personally I think that 83 orcs alone in the midst of humans have small chances of survival. They will be thinned out fast.


Yeah actually, as written, the inhabitants of Mordentshire would have torn through with ease, I seem to remember the miller being 10th lvl


Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:25 am
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Wait, what?!

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Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:44 am
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
alhoon wrote:
Wait, what?!


Sorry my mistake, I just checked and he's 9th level, it's the barkeep, bookkeeper and shopkeeper that are 10th level (and at least one of the guards)


Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:00 am
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
Oh, so he's JUST 9th level... Good to know that the barkeep can kick the miller out if he has a drink too many.
And that the barkeep, the miller, the shopkeeper and the blacksmith could take down a dragon. Probably did kill a couple in their long, violent adventuring careers that led them from commoners to some of the most powerful adventurers in the land.

I picture them, all grizzlers all, around a table drinking hot milk along with honeyed bread and talking about the "good ol' days" where morals were strong, and how youth have taken a bad turn and all. And then the miller saying "hey, do you remember poor Dopon, that we lost 25 years ago? The barber? His daughter had twins!" and the answer being "Dopon? The one that the Mezzodemons dragged in hell?" "No! That was trep, the butcher! Dopon was the one that the black dragon liquefied!" and the others going "ohhh... yes. Dopon".

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Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:46 am
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Post Re: Orcs, Goblins, and their kins
alhoon wrote:
Oh, so he's JUST 9th level... Good to know that the barkeep can kick the miller out if he has a drink too many.
And that the barkeep, the miller, the shopkeeper and the blacksmith could take down a dragon. Probably did kill a couple in their long, violent adventuring careers that led them from commoners to some of the most powerful adventurers in the land.

I picture them, all grizzlers all, around a table drinking hot milk along with honeyed bread and talking about the "good ol' days" where morals were strong, and how youth have taken a bad turn and all. And then the miller saying "hey, do you remember poor Dopon, that we lost 25 years ago? The barber? His daughter had twins!" and the answer being "Dopon? The one that the Mezzodemons dragged in hell?" "No! That was trep, the butcher! Dopon was the one that the black dragon liquefied!" and the others going "ohhh... yes. Dopon".


You have to remember that I10 (and I6, for that matter) were written long before Ravenloft had established its sensibilities as a campaign setting. Plus, it does make sense a little bit in the case of Mordentshire a few hundred years before the current time-frame. The last of the great heroes have settled down and retired, and a small tribe of orcs hiding away in the woods is the last of their kind. The old days of the wondrous, magnificent, and magical have passed, only to be replaced by the dreary and melancholic


Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:18 pm
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