View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:36 am



Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
(PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft? 
Author Message
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
This thread is a bit of a two-for-one deal, and I apologise, but I figure that the topics are closely related enough that I should be cluttering up the forum by splitting them off.

One of the things I like best about Pathfinder is that it has a lot of really interesting fluff ideas. From their original "Horror" Adventurer Path, Curse of the Carrion Crown, they brought up the concept of Changelings - or, as I call them here to avoid confusion with the doppelganger-kin from Eberron, Haglings. Building on lore established for Night Hags in Dragon Magazine, and to a lesser extent the Hagspawn of Forgotten Realms, Haglings are the still-mostly-human daughters of hags, born from unclean wombs but free of their eldritch mothers' cursed nature. Unless they are transformed into new hags by others of their own kind, that is.

So, I was wondering: how well would Haglings fit into Ravenloft? Would you consider them to overlap too much with Calibans, or even Tieflings, or could they share the realms of the mists with their fellow spawn of cursed progenitors?

The other topic is simple: when it comes to D&D crunch, I vastly prefer 5th edition to Pathfinder. Of course, there's no official translations of any Pathfinder material as such. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to offer critique if I were to try my hand at converting the Hagling to 5e rules - not necessarily just for use in Ravenloft, but for elsewhere?

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:58 pm
Profile
Invisible Menace
Invisible Menace
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
Posts: 7702
Location: Chania or Athens // Greece
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Well, I read somewhere in canon that the daughters of the 3 hags become hags. So, actually haglings in Ravenloft are cursed to become hags.
You know, sins of the father, inescapable evil that runs in your veins even you try to resist, evil spawns evil etc.

_________________
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!


Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:10 am
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Haglings don't really have a background in D&D, because they're more or less a Pathfinder exclusive concept.

Basically, in D&D, traditionally, hags have daughters, who live their lives as humans until they reach old age, then they turn into hags. In Forgotten Realms, hags sometimes have sons, who are Caliban-like monsters called "Hagspawn".

In Dragon Magazine, night hags have daughters who are functionally human, though with a strong propensity to become wizards and sorcerers. To create a new night hag, a night hag must visit one of her daughters before she turns a certain age, ritually treating her each night for several nights - if this goes on without interruption, her daughter is transformed into a new night hag in turn.

In Pathfinder, all hags (except night hags, who supposedly only produce half-fiends instead) produce "changeling" (hagling) daughters. These are their own species, but, if a hagling submits to a hag, a hag can conduct a ritual that will transform the hagling irreversibly into a new hag. Hags make use of "The Call", a mystical summons, in order to try and lure haglings to approach them and agree to join them in hagdom. To this end, they usually leave their daughters in homes where they will be abused, so as to foster the bitterness, hate and fury that would make a painful transformation into a hideous but powerful witch enticing to a vengeful hagling.

So, yeah, you can't really call on previous edition canon for this matter, because haglings have never existed as a concept in D&D until Pathfinder created them.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:35 am
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Alright, I thought it wouldn't hurt if I offered up the canonical Pathfinder "hagspawn" racial traits and then my first drafts of the 5e versions.

Firstly, I only have the Advanced Race Guide and Inner Sea Races. I don't know if there's any alternate Hag Traits for the Blood Hag, Mute Hag, Winter Hag or Storm Hag; I never knew such changelings existed until I read them in the back of Inner Sea Races (page #240).

On the same topic, that same page says there's no such thing as Night Hag Changelings, and instead their daughters are Half-Fiends. Rubbish to me, but anyway, not worth worrying about at this point.

Secondly, I know these PF racial traits are kind of weak, but they are the official PF stats. Pathfinder races tend to be kind of wimpy, at least compared to 5e ones.


Pathfinder Changelings/Haglings/Hagspawn
Ability Modifier: +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution.
Size: Medium
Type: Humanoid with Changeling subtype
Normal Speed: 30 feet
Claws: A changeling has two Claw attacks that do 1D4 damage.
Natural Armor: A changeling receives a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class.
Darkvision: 60 feet
Hag Ancestry: Choose one of the following traits.
* Crawling Skin (Blood Hag): This changeling gains a +2 bonus on Disguise checks made to look like a specific individual.
* Dead Eyes (Mute Hag): This changeling sports a solid, dead-black eye that gives her a +2 bonus on all saves against gaze attacks and visual illusions.
* Frostlaced Flesh (Winter Hag): This changeling leaves no tracks in snow and gains a +2 racial bonus on all saves versus cold effects.
* Green Widow (Green Hag): This changeling receives a +2 racial bonus on Bluff checks against creatures that are sexually attracted to her.
* Hulking Changeling (Annis Hag): This changeling gains a +1 racial bonus on melee damage rolls.
* Into The Wind (Storm Hag): This changeling gains a +1 racial bonus on ranged damage rolls.
* Mist Child (Annis Hag): This changeling, when in concealment or total concealment, increases the Miss Chance of attacks made against her by 5%.
* Object of Desire (Green Hag): This changeling adds +1 to her caster level when casting Charm Person or Charm Monster.
* Ocean's Daughter (Sea Hag): This changeling gains a +1 trait bonus on Swim checks and automatically succeeds on Swim checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from swimming.
* Sea Lungs (Sea Hag): This changeling can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to 3 * her Constitution before she risks drowning.


Alternate Racial Trait: Hag Magic
This trait replaces the Natural Armor trait. A Changeling with this trait may select one level 0 or level 1 spell from the Witch list that does not require more than 1 gold piece in material components. This chosen spell becomes a spell-like ability usable 1 time per day (if a 1st level spell is chosen) or 3 times per day (if a 0 level spell is chosen).

Alternate Racial Trait: Witchborn
Changelings with this alternate racial trait have abilitiy modifies of +2 Intelligence and +2 Charisma instead of +2 Wisdom and +2 Charisma.



5e Hagling Racial Profile, 1st Draft
Ability Modifier: +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision 60 feet
Claws: A hagling is automatically proficient with her unarmed strikes, which do 1d4 slashing damage.
Haggish Toughness: A hagling receives a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
Hag's Blood: A hag must choose one of the following subraces.

* Annis Hagling
Ability Modifier: +2 Strength
Claws of Iron: An annis hagling does 1d6 slashing damage with her unarmed strikes instead of 1d4.
Thickened Hide: An annis hagling increases her hitpoint maximum by +1, and increases it by a further +1 every time she gains a level.

* Blood Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Dexterity
Fireproof: A blood hagling has Resistance to Fire.
Crawling Skin: A blood hagling has Advantage on checks made to physically disguise herself.
Burning Hexcraft: A blood hagling has the following spell-like abilities. A 1st level blood hagling has the Control Flames (Elemental Evil Player's Guide) and Fire Bolt cantrips. At 3rd level, she gains the ability to cast Burning Hands once per short rest as a 1st level spell. At 5th level, she gains the ability to cast Aganazzar's Scorcher (Elemental Evil Player's Guide) once per short rest as a 2nd level spell.

* Green Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Intelligence
Green Widow: A green hagling gains Advantage on Charisma checks, thanks to inheriting her mother's supernatural affinity for seduction and manipulation.
Object of Desire: A green hagling has Advantage when making attack rolls with spells that belong to the Enchantment school.
Haggish Charms: A green hagling gains the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per short rest. Charm Person at 3rd level, usable as a 1st level spell. Enthrall at 5th level, usable as a 2nd level spell.

* Mute Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Wisdom
Blind: A mute hagling's eyes do not function, leaving them blind, though their mystical heritage enables them to adapt. A mute hagling automatically fails all checks based on sight. However, she has Blindsight 60 feet instead of Darkvision 60 feet. Additionally, she has Advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made using any of her other senses.
Mute: A mute hagling does not have a voice, at least not one that can be heard with the ears. A mute hagling may communicate with a single creature within 30 feet by use of telepathy, but cannot make any verbal sounds.
Thief of Sight: A mute hagling gains two spell-like abilities, each of which that she may use once per short rest, upon reaching third level. She may use Invisibility (self only) and Blindness (as per Blindness/Deafness, but can only inflict the Blind condition), both as 2nd level spells.

* Sea Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Constitution
Ocean Born: A sea hagling has a Swim speed of 30 feet and Advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks made to swim under difficult conditions.
Sea Lungs: A sea hagling can breath water and air.
Frightful Glare: The gaze of an angry sea hagling can horrify almost as much as the appearance of her hag mother. A sea hagling may make a gaze attack against any creature that is within 30 feet; targets must pass a Wisdom check or be Frightened for 1 minute.

* Storm Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Strength
Stormborn: A storm hagling has Resistance to Lightning and Thunder damage.
Claws of the Storm: A storm hagling inflicts Slashing and Lightning damage with her unarmed strikes.
Windherder: A storm hagling knows the Gust and Thunderclap cantrips as spell-like abilities. Both are found in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion.

* Winter Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Constitution
Frostlaced Flesh: A winter hagling has Resistance to cold damage, leaves no tracks in snow, and has Advantage on any checks made to survival in a cold environment.
Breath of Winter: A winter hagling has a breath weapon that she may use once per short rest. This breath weapon is a 15ft cone that inflicts Cold damage and forces those caught within it to make a DC (8 + hagling's Con bonus + hagling's proficiency bonus) Constitution save. Targets that succeed in this save take only half damage. The winter hagling's breath weapon inflicts 2d6 Cold damage, increasing to 3D6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 am
Profile
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Posts: 4309
Location: A Canadian from Canadia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
alhoon wrote:
Well, I read somewhere in canon that the daughters of the 3 hags become hags. So, actually haglings in Ravenloft are cursed to become hags.
You know, sins of the father, inescapable evil that runs in your veins even you try to resist, evil spawns evil etc.

Well, PCs are pretty unique. It's less a "race" and more a rare/unique creature.

_________________
My webcomic & Blog
5 Minute Workday

Ravenloft Maps and other images.


Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:05 am
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Jester of the FoS wrote:
alhoon wrote:
Well, I read somewhere in canon that the daughters of the 3 hags become hags. So, actually haglings in Ravenloft are cursed to become hags.
You know, sins of the father, inescapable evil that runs in your veins even you try to resist, evil spawns evil etc.

Well, PCs are pretty unique. It's less a "race" and more a rare/unique creature.

Like I said above, considering "haglings" are a race that have absolutely no canonical ties to D&D of 2nd or 3rd edition, being unique to the Pathfinder spin-off game, you really cannot make much reference to the old lore about hag daughters when discussing them.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:02 pm
Profile
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:57 am
Posts: 62
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
I get what you are saying Hellborn, but you did ask how they might fit into Ravenloft.I think it's perfectly reasonable to look at what available lore there is regarding Hags and their offspring in the setting.
There are a number of monsters who changed their abilities and varied their backgrounds in the transition from vanilla DnD sword fodder to Gothic villains.
I think that it's really up to you what changes, if any, you make to their background. Personally, I would tend to go with the 'sins of the father' that Alhoon suggested.
I may be mistaken, but I think that Jester is suggesting that each Hag and it's various offspring is as variable as a PC. You create the Hag you need with the background and abilities you need for your story. :)


Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:01 pm
Profile
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Posts: 4309
Location: A Canadian from Canadia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
I'm more suggesting that if you want a changeling/hagkin PC it's easy to handwave a character as being the daughter of a hag that was purified or resisted temptation. Someone that didn't embrace the darkness of other hags, but wasn't known because it hadn't happened before, or there were unique variables that changed things.

It's an easy addition. I'd like to see what you have for 5e.

_________________
My webcomic & Blog
5 Minute Workday

Ravenloft Maps and other images.


Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:13 pm
Profile
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:57 am
Posts: 62
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
The penny drops....

These Changelings/Haglings are a playable character race then? That's a whole different ballgame. :)


Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:31 pm
Profile
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Posts: 4309
Location: A Canadian from Canadia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Hell_Born wrote:
5e Hagling Racial Profile, 1st Draft

Okay, let's do this.

Hell_Born wrote:
Ability Modifier: +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision 60 feet
Claws: A hagling is automatically proficient with her unarmed strikes, which do 1d4 slashing damage.

Looks good so far.
I'd look at the Unearthed Arcana Minotaur article for how a natural attack is treated. But the text for unarmed attacks has been changed lately, so looking at the errata for wording would be good.

Hell_Born wrote:
Haggish Toughness: A hagling receives a +1 bonus to Armor Class.

No.
Bonuses to AC are pretty good in 5e. This is simply too much and too big unless having really thick hide is super vital to the feel and flavour of the race. Hags do have pretty solid natural armour, but this feels incidental to everything else they do.
I'd rather see a neat ability that isn't just a numerical bonus that fades into the character sheet. Something active.

Something that adds an element of disguise to the changeling/hagling would be good. Hags do veil themselves and hide their appearance, so allowing some cosmetic tweaking to a hagling would be fun.

Hell_Born wrote:
* Annis Hagling
Ability Modifier: +2 Strength
Claws of Iron: An annis hagling does 1d6 slashing damage with her unarmed strikes instead of 1d4.
Thickened Hide: An annis hagling increases her hitpoint maximum by +1, and increases it by a further +1 every time she gains a level.

Most races go for +2/+1 in bonuses. Few subclasses give a +2.
I like the increased claw damage. Uncertain if extra hitpoints are enough. What else dp annis hags do that could be pulled for inspiration?

Hell_Born wrote:
* Green Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Intelligence
Green Widow: A green hagling gains Advantage on Charisma checks, thanks to inheriting her mother's supernatural affinity for seduction and manipulation.
Object of Desire: A green hagling has Advantage when making attack rolls with spells that belong to the Enchantment school.
Haggish Charms: A green hagling gains the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per short rest. Charm Person at 3rd level, usable as a 1st level spell. Enthrall at 5th level, usable as a 2nd level spell.

Advantage on Charisma checks is too broad. Look at the dwarf and elf abilities related to skills. Gaining proficiency with deception or persuasion and doubling when related to seduction would be better.

I don't know if there are many Enchantment spells that have attack rolls. Imposing disadvantage on a saving throw once per rest might be more effective.
The charm spells don't seem to match the presentation of the Green Hag in the 5e Monster Manual. Their big thing is mimicry, which would be interesting to emulate.

Hell_Born wrote:
* Sea Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Constitution
Ocean Born: A sea hagling has a Swim speed of 30 feet and Advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks made to swim under difficult conditions.
Sea Lungs: A sea hagling can breath water and air.
Frightful Glare: The gaze of an angry sea hagling can horrify almost as much as the appearance of her hag mother. A sea hagling may make a gaze attack against any creature that is within 30 feet; targets must pass a Wisdom check or be Frightened for 1 minute.

This one does a lot. Swim speed *and* advantage on Strength checks might be too much. Maybe a slightly slower swim speed?
How often can Frightful Glare be used? If balancing this I'd calculate what level of spell that is equivalent to, and then compare than to any of the spellcasting subraces.

Hell_Born wrote:
* Blood Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Dexterity
Fireproof: A blood hagling has Resistance to Fire.
Crawling Skin: A blood hagling has Advantage on checks made to physically disguise herself.
Burning Hexcraft: A blood hagling has the following spell-like abilities. A 1st level blood hagling has the Control Flames (Elemental Evil Player's Guide) and Fire Bolt cantrips. At 3rd level, she gains the ability to cast Burning Hands once per short rest as a 1st level spell. At 5th level, she gains the ability to cast Aganazzar's Scorcher (Elemental Evil Player's Guide) once per short rest as a 2nd level spell.

* Mute Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Wisdom
Blind: A mute hagling's eyes do not function, leaving them blind, though their mystical heritage enables them to adapt. A mute hagling automatically fails all checks based on sight. However, she has Blindsight 60 feet instead of Darkvision 60 feet. Additionally, she has Advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made using any of her other senses.
Mute: A mute hagling does not have a voice, at least not one that can be heard with the ears. A mute hagling may communicate with a single creature within 30 feet by use of telepathy, but cannot make any verbal sounds.
Thief of Sight: A mute hagling gains two spell-like abilities, each of which that she may use once per short rest, upon reaching third level. She may use Invisibility (self only) and Blindness (as per Blindness/Deafness, but can only inflict the Blind condition), both as 2nd level spells.

* Storm Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Strength
Stormborn: A storm hagling has Resistance to Lightning and Thunder damage.
Claws of the Storm: A storm hagling inflicts Slashing and Lightning damage with her unarmed strikes.
Windherder: A storm hagling knows the Gust and Thunderclap cantrips as spell-like abilities. Both are found in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion.

* Winter Hagling
Ability Modifier: +1 Constitution
Frostlaced Flesh: A winter hagling has Resistance to cold damage, leaves no tracks in snow, and has Advantage on any checks made to survival in a cold environment.
Breath of Winter: A winter hagling has a breath weapon that she may use once per short rest. This breath weapon is a 15ft cone that inflicts Cold damage and forces those caught within it to make a DC (8 + hagling's Con bonus + hagling's proficiency bonus) Constitution save. Targets that succeed in this save take only half damage. The winter hagling's breath weapon inflicts 2d6 Cold damage, increasing to 3D6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level.

These are a bit much. 2-4 subraces is plenty, and any more gets crowded.
They're also more related to Pathfinder hags than Ravenloft. And PF has a LOT of new monsters that are basically new versions of existing monsters that add little. I'd pick one from this list and really focus on that.

_________________
My webcomic & Blog
5 Minute Workday

Ravenloft Maps and other images.


Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:37 pm
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Thank you for your critique of the first draft, Jester, and for your further support. I'm sorry if I seemed ungrateful in my last post.

The +1 to AC was lifted as a pretty straight translation of the Pathfinder racial ability. I'd also like something more flavorful, if you can make any suggestions?


On Annis Hagling:
The Annis Hagling is a hard thing to do because there's no Annis Hag for 5e yet, and in Pathfinder it's an extremely lackluster creature - claw attacks, rend, alter self 3/day and fog cloud 3/day.

For the comment on Thickened Hide, were you suggesting that she needs another ability, or that she needs to replace Thickened Hide?

If it helps, in my first draft of this topic on 8chan's /tg/ board, I initially gave them Resistance to Physical Damage, and received the feedback that this was overpowered, and the suggestion was made to give them the +1 AC bonus instead.

Also, there is actually precedence for a race with two +2s in the PHB; the Mountain Dwarf has +2s to both Strength and Con, possibly because its only other unique trait is free proficiency with light & medium armor.


On Green Hagling:
Yeah, I thought the Charisma Advantage in general was a bit overpowered. I wasn't sure how to properly carry over the "feel" of the PF Green Widow ability. Maybe Advantage to Deception & Persuasion, doubling the bonus if seducing, would be acceptable?

I'm a little unclear on how Enchantment spells actually attack Willpower. Yeah, being able to inflict Disadvantage on a Willpower saving throw once per short rest is probably better.

I basically based these haglings on the Pathfinder hags, which maybe wasn't such a good idea? If you think it'd be better to stick closer to the 5e model of the hags, I don't mind - for the Green Hagling, in particular, it sounds interesting. It does mean I can probably only do Green, Night and Sea Haglings, though, because those are the only ones with official 5e hags to base off of.


On Sea Hagling:
Just to clarify, the Strength check Advantage is only under specific circumstances. Something like swimming in rough water, for example.

Well, here's what the only equivalents to the Sea Hagling, the Half-Aquatic Elf (Sword Coast Player's Guide) and Water Genasi (Princes of Elemental Evil, Elemental Evil Player's Guide) get:
Half-Aquatic Elf wrote:
+2 Charisma, +1 to two Ability Scores of the player's choice, Darkvision 60 feet, Fey Ancestry (Advantage on save vs. Charm, immune to magical sleep), Swim Speed 30 feet

Water Genasi wrote:
+2 Constitution, +1 Wisdom, Acid Resistance, Swim Speed 30 feet, Amphibious, Shape Water at will, Create Or Destroy Water 1/day at level 3


Frightful Glare was inspired by the 5e Sea Hag's Horrifying Appearance (at will) and Death Glare (at-will, Frightened creature only) abilities.


Other Haglings:
Yeah, I know this is a lot. But, really, there's only a few subraces so far because it's still pretty early days for 5e. We all know that they're going to keep coming out with official subraces as the splatbooks roll out. Plus, well, I have the Pathfinder rules for them, so I thought I might as well give them a shot under 5e rules.


List of Pathfinder hags for reference, just in case that's needed:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... anoids/hag

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:37 pm
Profile
Jester of the Dark Comedy
Jester of the Dark Comedy
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
Posts: 4309
Location: A Canadian from Canadia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Hell_Born wrote:
On Annis Hagling:
The Annis Hagling is a hard thing to do because there's no Annis Hag for 5e yet, and in Pathfinder it's an extremely lackluster creature - claw attacks, rend, alter self 3/day and fog cloud 3/day.

For the comment on Thickened Hide, were you suggesting that she needs another ability, or that she needs to replace Thickened Hide?

I'd look at 1e and 2e versions of the monster for cool ideas. 3e codified things, which often made unique powers less flavourful. Old school annis had a rend attack, which could be interesting.
They also had resistance to "edged weapons". So I'd replace the static bonus with something else. A short duration resistance to slashing and piercing damage might work.

Hell_Born wrote:
Also, there is actually precedence for a race with two +2s in the PHB; the Mountain Dwarf has +2s to both Strength and Con, possibly because its only other unique trait is free proficiency with light & medium armor.

The mountain dwarf is a tricky example.
It gives a +2/+2 but it's second ability (proficiency in armour) benefits classes without those proficiencies, who are unlikely to use Strength. And classes that do employ Strength are likely to already have those proficiencies.
Not the best guideline for balance, as it's so finicky.

Hell_Born wrote:
Yeah, I know this is a lot. But, really, there's only a few subraces so far because it's still pretty early days for 5e. We all know that they're going to keep coming out with official subraces as the splatbooks roll out.

So far 5e has been restrained with both subraces and splatbooks. The race with the most is the elf, which has high, wood, drow, and eladrin. But the newly released Sword Coast Adventurer's Handbook resisted the urge to add new elf subraces, or lots of new subraces. It added a dwarf, gnome, and halfling subrace. And then only because they were subraces with years of lore.
5e seems unlikely to have races with 6-7 subraces any time soon.

_________________
My webcomic & Blog
5 Minute Workday

Ravenloft Maps and other images.


Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:42 pm
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Well, checking my Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Monstrous Manual (TST 2140), the AD&D Annis had infravision 60 feet, was only surprised on a 1 on 1d10, had a grappling ability that basically became Rend in 3rd ed, Fog Cloud 3/day, Change Self (human woman, female ogre, female giant), -1 damage from Slashing, +1 damage from bludgeoning.

With that in mind, perhaps the Annis Hagling might benefit from Slashing Resistance against non-magic and non-silvered weapons? It's used on a bunch of monsters, after all.

I think Fog Cloud is too high to be a spell-like ability in 5e... double checking... huh, no, it's actually only a 1st level spell; I thought it was higher than that. Perhaps Fog Cloud 1/short rest and Enlarge (self only) 1/short rest at levels 3 and 5 might be fair?

And yeah, I know the mountain dwarf is a very unique case in the races. And you have a point about the restraint amongst races and subraces.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:18 pm
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
So, anyone still interested in this? If it helps, my focus would definitely be on "the big four" of hags - the Annis, Green, Night and Sea - since those are the ones who exist in Ravenloft and are the four with the longest history in the game. I do have my own interest in Pathfinder's other haggish species, but that's a very distinct secondary goal here.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:17 pm
Profile
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 532
Location: Queensland, Australia
Post Re: (PF + 5e) "Haglings" in Ravenloft?
Well, I figured I might as well try and do a second draft.

5e Hagling Racial Profile, 2nd Draft
Ability Modifier: +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision 60 feet
Claws: A hagling is automatically proficient with her unarmed strikes, which do 1d4 slashing damage.
Haggish Ancestry: A hagling belongs to the lineage of a particular kind of hag. Choose from the Annis Hag, Green Hag, Sea Hag or Night Hag subraces.

Annis Hag Ancestry:
Ability Modifier: +1 Strength
Claws of Iron: An annis hagling does 1d6 slashing damage with her unarmed strikes instead of 1d4.
Hulking Witch: An annis hagling that reaches 3rd level may cast the Enlarge/Reduce spell once per long rest, targeting only herself, and only in its Enlarge format. Charisma is the spellcasting ability for this spell.
Unholy Hide: Once per short rest, an annis hagling may grant herself resistance to nonmagical, non-silvered slashing weapons for 1 minute.


Green Hag Ancestry:
Ability Modifier: +1 Wisdom
Mimicry: A green hagling may attempt to mimic the voice of a humanoid or the call of an animal. Listeners can attempt to pierce this deception by making a Wisdom (Insight) check. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + the hagling's Charisma modifier + the hagling's proficiency bonus.
Deceptive Charms: A green hagling knows the Dancing Lights, Minor Illusion and Vicious Mockery cantrips.


Sea Hag Ancestry:
Ability Modifier: +1 Constitution
Ocean Born: A sea hagling has a Swim speed of 30 feet and Advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks made to swim under difficult conditions.
Sea Lungs: A sea hagling can breath water and air.
Frightful Glare: The gaze of an angry sea hagling can horrify almost as much as the appearance of her hag mother. Once per short rest, a sea hagling may make a gaze attack against any creature that is within 30 feet; targets must pass a Wisdom check or be Frightened for 1 minute. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + the hagling's Charisma modifier + the hagling's proficiency bonus.


Night Hag Ancestry:
Ability Modifier: +1 Intelligence
Somnambulant Charms: A night hagling can cast Sleep as a 1st level spell once per short rest.
Fiendish Resilience: A night hagling has Resistance to Fire and Cold. Once per long rest, a night hagling may grant herself resistance to non-magical, non-silvered bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage for 1 minute.

_________________
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."

"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"


Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:57 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.