Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

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The Lesser Evil
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Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by The Lesser Evil »

So in looking for ways to create adventure hooks to explain the various holes in the Ravenloft timeline, I've recently come to Mordenheim and Lamordia. As we know, there is a number of holes where the existence of Lamordia is referenced even before its existence (example: Lumley hiring Vistani to steal the Notes on Animation Children of the NIght: the Created) and that there have been two given dates for its formation (Domains of Dread gives it as 575 BC as an Island of Terror not joining the Core until 683, whereas Ravenloft 3e gives 683 BC as its formation date. Either way you'll get some continuity efforts)

My solution to the above is that it was originally 575 BC, but then Mordenheim did something in an attempt to avert his fate. Specifically, the idea hit me from the novel Mordenheim.
VIEW CONTENT:
In that book, Mordenheim's desperation causes him to enlist the help of "necromancers" Hilda and Friendrich Kreutzer to use magic of all things to restore Elise to the living body of a Vistani girl named Ilisa. Consequently, things don't work out, and Mordenheim swears never to rely on magic again.
In the book, Mordenheim mentions that the previous owner of Schloss Mordenheim, Baron Heimreich, had a library that included tomes on "metaphysics" that he said the Kreuzters were welcome to use since Mordenheim had no use for them. At the end of the Mordenheim novel, the doctor is overtaken by rage at magic and its unreliability. Therefore, in his normally out of character rage, it is not unreasonable to assume he might return to said library and burn whatever tomes were still in said library. However, going through the books, Mordenheim discovers some works on quantum theory and time travel. They are quasi-scientific enough for Mordenheim to translate them into actual (weird) science. So he begins work on a transgression greater than any that came before: instead of playing god with "just" one creation, he would play god with the entire timeline, altering history to change the events of the past.

Of course, things do not go well for him either, in that, beyond things turning out pretty much the same way they did before, there were certain temporal distortions, such as what occurred with the Automatic Man and the Kreuzters unexplained for jump to the future. In the "reboot", Lamordia forms much later, but it still does, just this time it's in the Core. What other ramifications I will leave to you. Perhaps Mordenheim might try again in the modern timeline. Could making for an interesting Time of Unparalled Darkness scenario.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Solan »

The Lesser Evil wrote:So in looking for ways to create adventure hooks to explain the various holes in the Ravenloft timeline, I've recently come to Mordenheim and Lamordia. As we know, there is a number of holes where the existence of Lamordia is referenced even before its existence (example: Lumley hiring Vistani to steal the Notes on Animation Children of the NIght: the Created) and that there have been two given dates for its formation (Domains of Dread gives it as 575 BC as an Island of Terror not joining the Core until 683, whereas Ravenloft 3e gives 683 BC as its formation date. Either way you'll get some continuity efforts)

My solution to the above is that it was originally 575 BC, but then Mordenheim did something in an attempt to avert his fate. Specifically, the idea hit me from the novel Mordenheim.
VIEW CONTENT:
In that book, Mordenheim's desperation causes him to enlist the help of "necromancers" Hilda and Friendrich Kreutzer to use magic of all things to restore Elise to the living body of a Vistani girl named Ilisa. Consequently, things don't work out, and Mordenheim swears never to rely on magic again.
In the book, Mordenheim mentions that the previous owner of Schloss Mordenheim, Baron Heimreich, had a library that included tomes on "metaphysics" that he said the Kreuzters were welcome to use since Mordenheim had no use for them. At the end of the Mordenheim novel, the doctor is overtaken by rage at magic and its unreliability. Therefore, in his normally out of character rage, it is not unreasonable to assume he might return to said library and burn whatever tomes were still in said library. However, going through the books, Mordenheim discovers some works on quantum theory and time travel. They are quasi-scientific enough for Mordenheim to translate them into actual (weird) science. So he begins work on a transgression greater than any that came before: instead of playing god with "just" one creation, he would play god with the entire timeline, altering history to change the events of the past.

Of course, things do not go well for him either, in that, beyond things turning out pretty much the same way they did before, there were certain temporal distortions, such as what occurred with the Automatic Man and the Kreuzters unexplained for jump to the future. In the "reboot", Lamordia forms much later, but it still does, just this time it's in the Core. What other ramifications I will leave to you. Perhaps Mordenheim might try again in the modern timeline. Could making for an interesting Time of Unparalled Darkness scenario.
Interesting idea, but how is there a temporal dislocation with the Automatic Man?
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

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In 671 BC, Howard Lumley employs some Vistani thieves to steal a book from Lamordia for him. That text is Notes on Animation, a manual of golems. He uses these notes in the construction of the Automatic Man. However, in the 3e timeline, Lamordia does not become a Ravenloft domain until 683 BC. Thus, the former event precedes the latter event by 12 years.

If, however, the theft is a temporal remnant from a previous Ravenloft before the reboot (the one where Lamordia became a domain in 575 BC as per the Domains of Dread timeline), we can explain the inconsistencies between the two timelines. In addition, we can also explain why the 575 BC Lamordia date shows up in Strahd's memoirs. Both are lingering temporal distortions that didn't get "rewritten" by Mordenheim's temporal reboot.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Well, the vistani do travel the planes outside of Ravenloft. Could they have gotten the book for Lumley from Prime Material Lamordia, before Adam was granted a domain?
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Resonant Curse »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Well, the vistani do travel the planes outside of Ravenloft. Could they have gotten the book for Lumley from Prime Material Lamordia, before Adam was granted a domain?

Aside from maybe 4th edition sources, where has it ever said that they leave the Domains of Dread?
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

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They could have. (We have evidence of Vistani activity in Prime Material Lamordia because Dr. Mordenheim says he saw a curse of mishamel once back when he was a med student.)

Hoiwever, Lumley (whom was in Mordent) hired them specifically to steal the Notes specifically from Lamordia, so that wouldn't explain how Lumley knew about Lamordia to hire them to steal it.

Also, I think it would make for a really set up for a string of adventures. For example, if Dr. Mordenheim ever heard about the time distortion effect in Forlorn, he might send adventurers to explore and record their observations such that Dr. M. could know more about temporal distortions for his second attempt at a reboot.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Resonant Curse wrote:
Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Well, the vistani do travel the planes outside of Ravenloft. Could they have gotten the book for Lumley from Prime Material Lamordia, before Adam was granted a domain?

Aside from maybe 4th edition sources, where has it ever said that they leave the Domains of Dread?
As mentioned above, in the Mordenheim novel, Dr. M. notes that he had witnessed a prior case of the mishamel curse to one of his patients on the P.M. Plane when he was a medi. student.

Also, at least for a few of the modules, the Vistani act as potential hooks to draw the party into the Demiplane of Dread. For example, Raul Salazar from the Evil Eye, Soldani from From the Shadows, etc.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

The Lesser Evil wrote:Also, at least for a few of the modules, the Vistani act as potential hooks to draw the party into the Demiplane of Dread. For example, Raul Salazar from the Evil Eye, Soldani from From the Shadows, etc.
Same thing in Curse of Strahd. Also, even though it's apocryphal, The Enemy Within. Also, Masque of the Red Death... It's not just a 4e thing, even though the 4e writeup made it seem like planehopping was their major pastime.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Solan »

The Lesser Evil wrote: Also, I think it would make for a really set up for a string of adventures. For example, if Dr. Mordenheim ever heard about the time distortion effect in Forlorn, he might send adventurers to explore and record their observations such that Dr. M. could know more about temporal distortions for his second attempt at a reboot.
I LIKE that idea :D! I was just rereading Castles Forlorn today, and it's really incredible how much material there is for such a small area. Square foot per square foot, there may be more happening in Forlorn than in any other Domain.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Solan wrote: I LIKE that idea :D! I was just rereading Castles Forlorn today, and it's really incredible how much material there is for such a small area. Square foot per square foot, there may be more happening in Forlorn than in any other Domain.
Yeah, there is really quite a lot there. Only thing is that you have to really be creative to pull PCs into there. I think, after Castles Forlorn, I would have them investigate the Shadow Rift (because of its temporal anomaly distortion). Like, a little kid goes in/is kidnapped by the fey, and a while later, he comes out a maddened old fool and locked away in an insane asylum somewhere. The players visit the asylum (maybe on the border of Nova Vaasa and Tepest, so one can stick some Nova Vaasan or even Nightmare Court shenanigans in there if one were inclined.) After that, the party heads into Tepest, to interview some of the locals and try to figure out a secure way into the Shadow Rift. Once they enter the Rift, they have to deal with the fey.

Anyway, I'm thinking now this might make for a fun campaign, investigating temporal distortions exploring all the holes in the timeline and investigating what caused them (of whatever fabricated reasons I can come up with that sound cool.) Other likely topics of importance might include the following:
*Zarovan tribe (and therefore Madame Eva, and through her, perhaps Jacqueline Montarri)
*the Relentless ghost ship and its Darklord, Pieter van Riese
*Ixcapa (see the Worlds of Ravenloft netbook on the Midwayhaven Website, this domain is locked in a year-long cycle that repeats itself ala Groundhog Day)
*Romagna (from the Book of Sorrows, same Groundhog Day thing going for that)
*the the temporal displacement of the Kreuzters (as detailed in Champions of the Mists, investigating them would in turn lead back to Lamordia, perhaps as a climax finisher)
*any seemingly unaging or slow-aging people (so Ivana Boritsi, for example)
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by Solan »

The Lesser Evil wrote: Yeah, there is really quite a lot there. Only thing is that you have to really be creative to pull PCs into there.
Aside from the standard, overdone, "the Mists arise and take you elsewhere", the best way I can think of to get the PC's to go to Forlorn is to have a fugitive or enemy whom they are pursuing seek refuge there, as Gazeteer I suggests frequently happens. The second best way would be if the Goblyns' master started letting them raid outside of Forlorn again, in which case the PC's could be begged to lead a retailatory strike. Another way is, after a PC dies, to have a Vistanti reading suggests that the key to bringing back their friend can be found in Castle Tristenoria (which, of course, it can!). The last one I can think of is if the PC's are willing to be hired to guard a new logging expedition.

That's a nice list of chronal anomalies and causes, but you left out a big one: the Timepiece of Klorr and its current, unaging owner.
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Re: Let's all do the (Lamordian) time warp again!

Post by thekristhomas »

Jandar Sunstar was also missing for a long period, with the suggestion that he was mist led, but that could be something else for you.

IIRC there are some issues around the timeline of Bleak House that might make that a candidate
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